Usair Hanging On To Her Assets

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

GE held conference calls with the company and ALPA last summer and the financier laid out their parameters to keep aircraft in US Airways’ fleet. The 279 fleet count could have been kept, but negotiating stupidity with comments like “the concession stand is closedâ€￾ did nothing but cause deeper cuts, more job loss, and a smaller mainline.

During bankruptcy I the Seabury Group negotiated lease rates below current market value and now GECAS, International Lease, and other companies can repossess US Airways’ aircraft and lease them to other parties for more money, which is a good business decision. ALPA and the other unions gave the lessors the opportunity to take their aircraft back so they could lease them to another carrier, and sadly, this all could have been prevented.

There is nobody to blame but labor, especially in the case of ALPA when every ALPA official and advisor publicly warned the RC4 this could occur. How do I know this? I heard the advisors and national union leaders tell the MEC this over-and-over.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AAviator]

USA320pilot:

Do you remember making this statement?

"Ths issue here is simple: the RC4 is the first MEC leadership in the hisotry of ALPA to negotiate a contract with a "give" greater than the company's "ask". If you ask me, you are your leaders are incompetent. A union's responsibility is to get the best deal possible for the membership -- guess what, your team failed. The RC4 had the power and control of the MEC. If you're upset, be upset with those who negotiated the contract and the people in charge."

 

[AAviator]

Or is it time to run away and pretend you "don't read posts" here?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Can't believe no one has posted today's thought from today's Post-Gazette.

"The dull man is always sure, and the sure man is always dull"
H.L. Mencken

 

[USA320Pilot]

Walmartgreeter:

Let’s take the three MEC officers’ and twelve Reps out of this.

Thus, I choose to believe the ALPA president, the ALPA director of representation, the ALPA professional negotiator, ALPA E&FA lead economist, ALPA’s investment banker, ALPA’s financial advisor, ALPA’s outside general counsel, and ALPA’s contract administrator.

I guess they do not get it either and the only people who do are the RC4, 75% of the Negotiating Committee, and the people on your side of the union. None of the people above who have hundreds of year’s of combined negotiating service and have been used by every ALPA carrier know what they’re talking either, right? They have been hood winked by Dave and Bruce too, right?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Nycbusdriver:

Every ALPA official and advisor recommended the RC4 cut a deal early because each company offer would get worse, which is exactly what happened.

Would these be the same guardians of my pension that recommended an early deal...you know....the ones who work for OTHER airlines that would love to see U out of business? The LOCAL pols of PIT and PHL, or as you say, the RC4... did an OUTSTANDING job of representing THEIR OWN memembership...nothing more. That is what elected officials do. I was proud of my reps. But I cannot for the life of me see what those events have to do with anything that is happening now. You cannot negociate the success of an airline, only your own working conditions and hopefully a small say in decisions. The weakness and fear of those opposing the PIT and PHL reps has now put us in a position of having NO say in current events. Might as well lay back..and you know...enjoy it. 3 hour layovers on trips and 18 hour four days have not, and will not save this company. Only efficient use of crews and aircraft will help. That is not happening. Greeter.

 

[AAviator]

I'll provide the link.............

 

[USA320Pilot]

AAviator:

Yes I made that post. Again, the RC4 by “roll callâ€￾ lead the MEC with I believe 37 “roll callâ€￾ votes in one-year to obtain the first TA in the history of ALPA that provided a concession greater than the company’s opening offer. If you ask me that is incompetent and it appears you do not get it.

A union’s responsibility to the membership is to get the best deal possible and not negotiate a deal worse than the company’s opener. Do you agree with that?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Walmartgreeter:

I agree there is nothing that can be done about current events, but I strongly believe the current situation could have been avoided. In addition, I believe we need to focus on what we can do in the future to make it better and learn from our mistakes because nobody likes our contract(s).

Moreover, I strongly believe that US Airways can survive and become profitable and when it does it will become time for labor to get its fair share of the profits.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. I'm going to bed for the night -- I'll be back to debate tomorrow. Good night.

 

[AAviator]

AAviator:

Yes I made that post. Again, the RC4 by “roll callâ€￾ lead the MEC with I believe 37 “roll callâ€￾ votes in one-year to obtain the first TA in the history of ALPA that provided a concession greater than the company’s opening offer. If you ask me that is incompetent and it appears you do not get it.

A union’s responsibility to the membership is to get the best deal possible and not negotiate a deal worse than the company’s opener. Do you agree with that?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269582"][/post]​

You're going to have to help me out here, Is this not the same T/A, that you made the following statement about and then threatened legal recourse?

"The RC4 have been neutered and are in trouble. They will not block a deal and there has been a significant change of events. Furthermore, Senator's Rick Santorum and Arlen Specter will meet today with the RC4 today. "

Just so we're on the same sheet of music here....

 

[Walmartgreeter]

A union’s responsibility to the membership is to get the best deal possible and not negotiate a deal worse than the company’s opener. Do you agree with that?

Sounds good on the first read..but if ALPA is supposed to represent ALL the pilots in all the airlines it covers, maybe that is not true. If the "ask" is always the maximum the union can expect, then why even negociate. Some groups might actually get less than offered the first time by management, especially with quickly changing current events. But that might be a price to pay for the greater good. After all..do you actually want every ALPA contract to be negociated based on the so called "ask?" Look what is happening now at U, an allmost total trashing of an actual contract based on the belief that our group has no balls at all. I will give it a rest. Best. Greeter.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Walmartgreeter:

I will give it a rest too. The new contract s_cks, but there is nothing we can do about it. The best thing we can do is get the best seniority integration possible and then move on to the Joint Negotiations where a new contract will be obtained for the combined US Airways-America West business entity. Let’s try to collectively learn from our mistakes and move forward to get the best deal possible.

AAviator:

What’s your point? The senators tried to bring some sanity to the issue, but in the ned their motivation was politcal. Events change during negotiations and a good negotiating team makes adjustments, except ALPA’s was an “all rookie†team with no experience. In fact, nobody on the committee had ever attended the George Meaney School of Labor Relations when they began negotiations on LOA 91 and LOA 93. When the first and only member of the current ALPA negotiating committee attended the school he became the first ALPA negotiator at any airline to not successfully pass the course.

In fact, nobody on the current negotiating team has attended the school and I suspect US Airways is the only ALP carrier that does not have trained negotiators.

I’ll debate this later – I’m going to bed. I have to get up early.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

There is not a George Meaney School of Labor Relations.

The man's name was George Meany, it is the National Labor College.

National Labor College

The National Labor College (NLC) is located on a beautiful 47-acre campus in Silver Spring, Maryland. It began with the vision of George Meany that labor have its own college - a national center that would provide continuous labor education for all union activists.

NLC offers campus labor programs as well as undergraduate and graduate degree programs

 

[AAviator]

I'm going to take a stab at it. I'm not sure why I'm taking a stab at it, but I'm going to anyway.

First, I'd like to say "sorry" to the person who started this thread, and to the considerable "drift" we've seen in it thus far.

USA320pilot: I suggest you re-read the entire topic since you seem to posses about a half dozen personalities..

Your position, as far as I can tell, is, that Alpa should have taken the companys first offer, INSTEAD of giving more, (as they did, ------and voted in favor of by you-----thus leaving the company with a lower cost structure).

Resulting in: a weaker airline because of current overcapacity issues, fuel, and irrational pricing by distressed competition.

Am I right so far? Remember, I said you were going to have to help me out here.

 

[AAviator]

There is not a George Meaney School of Labor Relations.

The man's name was George Meany, it is the National Labor College.

National Labor College

[post="269589"][/post]​

700, I have no idea why he brought that up. Like most things he says it really doesn't make any sense. Really, in the sense he tries to make, the RC4 did their job, but were shouted/threatened down. They failed their membership, and the voting by PHL, and PIT proved it.