US Pilots Thread 11/24-12/1-Discuss Pilot Labor Issues Here

[Tiger 1050]

And virtually ALL of the east knew this was going to be battled out in court.

With all due respect I have a really hard time believing this statement. I believe you (east) thought you'd stomp the little guy out west and now your especially pissed that we fought back....

 

[nycbusdriver]

With all due respect I have a really hard time believing this statement. I believe you (east) thought you'd stomp the little guy out west and now your especially pissed that we fought back....

Of course I can't speak for the other +/- 3750 pilots on the east, but I fully expected what is occurring now to happen. I think most did.

 

[usair73]

With all due respect I have a really hard time believing this statement. I believe you (east) thought you'd stomp the little guy out west and now your especially pissed that we fought back....

Stomping may be a tad extreme, but you are certainly correct that none of the USAPA crowd ever thought their DOH claim had a hole bigger than Titanic's.

 

[Phoenix]

88, Being a MDA guy myself, I don't think that would have happened. What should have happened is all MDA or at least Capt. should have been placed above their bottom 300. Now the problem you run into is jr guys at mda vs sr guys at other j4j. You can't have people jump seniority. Also, what about a guy who did nothing. This is where ALPA really dropped the ball when the a/c were put on mainline cert. Alpa should have stopped the presses, showed MDA as recalled and had a bid for all including mainline. What could happen now is a change in order if NIC wins. I'm not sure it would totally void NIC, but could re-order it some what. Thats if MDA wins. Like I said before, it's hard for alpa to argue we weren't recalled when we had MDA guys holding mainline LEC positions. Not allowed under ALPA law.

When pilots were called to MDA ALPA congratulated themselves for the pilots that were being recalled to Mainline. ALPA was bragging about how great a job they were doing but ALPA seems to get confused by themselves a lot.. sorta like when they removed elected reps from PHL and denied CLT a vote on their reps, or the pension ratification that was promised.. or.. or .. or.. etc.

In view of ALPA's ever shifting position, the condition of the professional is really no surprise. Depressing.. but predictable.

 

[Tiger 1050]

In the Nov 25th PHL update the reps ask each member to only get their info from USAPA or their reps. What do you folks out east think of that? Given that there has been ample examples of outright spin brought to light here in this thread...

USAPA: This suit has no legal merit.

Judge: This suit is "ripe for adjudication."

USAPA: We have given much consideration to the west while constructing our DOH w/C&R's list.

Judge: Mr. Mowrey admitted during cross examination that he in fact did not consider the west.

USAPA (RICO suit): MTD are notoriously easy to achieve. Thus the appeal.

USAPA (Addington vs. USAPA) MTD are notoriously difficult to achieve...

(BTW these are paraphrased...)

 

[cactusboy53]

prater was a high ranking member of the
The Independent Association of Continental Pilots (IACP) He was accused of many corrupt actions to force alpa on the property of Continental Airlines. prater also worked closely with jr baker of america west to get alpa on their property. His payback to baker was the flawed nicolau list.

jr baker was with america west airlines in the early days. america west airlines pilot management flew illegal drugs into this country and eventually got caught. They also crossed a picket line in an airline in Australia. These illegal and less than pro union type actions, just to keep their airline alive.

I'm just curious if you will continue to rant with SAME OLD arguments OVER and OVER if Judge Wake sees things our way? I wonder if you will call him a senile old man as well. Dude, as the Eagle's said.....GET OVER IT. With Prater sitting on the list for 6+ months the east side enjoyed that much more delay. Prater further failed to force the east NC back to the table to finish this contract negotiation. He deserves your heartfelt thanks.

Am I to glean from your drivel that you are accusing JR Baker of smuggling illegal drugs into the country, and then working in Australia afterward?? What a sour little dude / dudette you are.

What I really wonder is can Prater now lead this group (when it's voted back in or we merge with another ALPA carrier) into the 21st century?

 

[nycbusdriver]

What I really wonder is can Prater now lead this group (when it's voted back in or we merge with another ALPA carrier) into the 21st century?

Two flaws in your argument. ALPA will not be voted back on this property for 20 years or more (assuming USAirways still exists.) If ALPA comes back due to a merger, by the time that happens Prater will not be leading anything. He won't have another term as president of ALPA.

 

[cactusboy53]

Two flaws in your argument. ALPA will not be voted back on this property for 20 years or more (assuming USAirways still exists.) If ALPA comes back due to a merger, by the time that happens Prater will not be leading anything. He won't have another term as president of ALPA.

NY Bus ....the bet is two Windmere Hefe's on the vote w/i 20 years. I concur with Prater the Weak forecast. Savvy?

 

[nycbusdriver]

NY Bus ....the bet is two Windmere Hefe's on the vote w/i 20 years. I concur with Prater the Weak forecast. Savvy?

Hmmm. Never heard of that brew. I've grown fond of Chimay Blue and a few other potent Belgian brews, myself. (Probably too much time spent at Delirium in Brussels.)

I'm not against the wager, but I didn't say "the vote within 20 years." I said "ALPA would not be voted back on the property for 20 years." Those are very different scenarios.

If USAPA grows tiresome (there's no indication of that yet, IMHO,) I expect there may be a vote after age 65 retirements start to kick in. ALPA couldn't win, though. Maybe another outfit could. There's too much memory here and, if we ever get new hires back, there will be enough horror stories told to keep even those guys wary of the "Mother Ship."

 

[ableoneable]

fodase,
I was simply pointing out that the MDA suit is still active, I have always said and believed you have to wait till a final ruling comes out, no different than the case out west. You may be correct, but who knows. I surely hope you can check your anger until after the holidays. I'll bet your so mad you could spit.

From what I have read the only portion of the MDA suit that is still alive is the part that demands monetary compensation. The re-ordering of the list was one of the sections that the judge threw out and is no longer in play.

 

[Furlough Fodder]

Hmmm. Never heard of that brew. I've grown fond of Chimay Blue and a few other potent Belgian brews, myself. (Probably too much time spent at Delirium in Brussels.)

I have to admit Chimay Grand Reserve (blue label) is one of my favorite beers. Next time you are at Delirium (love that place) you have to give Kwak a try. Another great Belgium beer served in a unique glass. I only wish I could find that beer stateside.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I myself prefer a glass of Yeungling Grand Reserve while sitting at a window table at the cafe Suds a' Spuds on the Rue Beers School.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I myself prefer a glass of Yeungling Grand Reserve while sitting at a window table at the cafe Suds a' Spuds on the Rue Beers School.

The Rue Beers School venue you mentioned is way to pretentious for my taste. Besides, I don't have the wardrobe that meets their stringent dress code, so they keep throwing me out.

 

[electricjet98]

federal judge has refused to block US Airways from laying off pilots from the old America West Airlines ahead of those hired by the original East Coast airline.

U.S. District Judge Neil Wake concluded that his court has no jurisdiction over the airline - at least, not until it exhausts other appeals.

Good morning PB,

Surely, you've been around long enough to not believe everything you read in a newspaper (or in USAPA updates)! My advice would to read the actual Judge's Order, but just a few quick "cut & paste" quotes regarding the company remaining "on the hook":

"The court has considered entering final judgment at this time dismissing the claims
against US Airways. The court declines to do so because there is “just reason for delayâ€￾ in
entry of a final judgment. Fed. R. Civ. P. 54(B). There would be little benefit to the parties
in a final judgment now because this court will conclude this case promptly, at which time
all aggrieved parties may appeal. Moreover, if discovery or further events show actual
collusion of US Airways in USAPA’s alleged breach of duty of fair representation, the court
would consider a motion to amend the complaint to renew the allegation of a hybrid claim against US Airways."

"If the court were to enjoin the furlough of West Pilots, the airline’s business judgment would still require it to reduce service on some flights and aircraft flown by West Pilots. One result of a preliminary injunction might be the continued payment of West Pilots who are not working. Another
result might be transfer of West Pilots to East Operations before operations are
consolidated, a great business burden against which US Airways expressly protected itself
in the Transition Agreement. If preliminary relief were granted and permanent relief
denied later, the operations of US Airways would have paid a grave and unjustified cost.
If preliminary relief were denied and permanent relief granted later, the West Pilots could
be largely compensated for their loss by the union, the airline, or both. Of particular
importance in alternatively denying a preliminary injunction on balance of hardships is
this court’s ability and resolve to conclude this case on an accelerated basis, within three
months or less. Thus, neither the threat of irreparable injury nor the balance of hardships
would justify a preliminary injunction against the airline’s furloughs."


And from Judge Wakes 11/21 order specifying the timeline:

ACCELERATED TRIAL ON PERMANENT INJUNCTION AND LIABILITY FOR
DAMAGES; BIFURCATION OF TRIAL ON AMOUNT OF DAMAGES.
Trial on the claim for permanent injunction and liability for damages is accelerated
and will be set no later than February 17, 2009. Trial on the amount of damages is
bifurcated and will be scheduled, if necessary, after ruling on the trial on permanent
injunction and liability for damages.
No dispositive motions will be allowed, as the parties have already engaged in
extensive pre-trial motion practice and the urgency of the case does not permit time for
another round of substantive motions before the claim for permanent injunction must be
decided.
TRIAL IN TANDEM OR CONSOLIDATION WITH ADDINGTON v. BRADFORD.
The trial on permanent injunction and liability for damages will be done
simultaneously and in tandem with the trial in Addington v.Bradford, No. CV 08-1728
PHX-NVW. The court will consider at the December 15, 2008, Case Management
Conference whether to formally consolidate the two cases.

None of us dimestore lawyers know where this will end...but it will be an interesting journey! Maybe we'll see some of our east friends out there and we can go out and have an adult beverage after each day's proceeding discuss the highlights. Hopefully, one topic discussed will be how to pick-up the pieces of this mess and proceed forward...as one group.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If you follow the USAPA logic, lists would be merged with A-M, and then the larger majority at AA could immediately renegotiate a contract with a large stapler involved.

(Replying to this here to keep another thread from creeping to pilot subjects.)

You are confusing a private, intra-union policy arbitration with an arbitration mandated by federal law. Hardly apples vs. apples.