US Pilots Labor Topic-Aug 1-5

[Richard]

OK, a bit late, here is the new pilots' labor thread for a shortened week. As always, please observe the rules--NO personal attacks, comments, insults, remarks, etc.....

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (EastUS @ Jul 31 2009, 05:55 PM) *
...And yet...it must be fairly observed that not so much as a single westie is able to bid east, that separate operations are the current ROE,


HPDriver: "It's a matter of when, not if. and the floodgates will open. Sure we won't bump any easties out of their seats, but reserve life will follow most of them into retirement."

1) Son...you've merely illustrated the typical misunderstanding of life's proceedings, properly attendant to callow youth. ANYTHING which has not yet happened, save only one's eventual extinction (and arguably...taxes) is ALWAYS a matter of "IF"

EastUS: ..."that the east group may well receive significant pay/benefits enhancements within a year,
that 70 million's coming the east way...."


HPDriver:"Glad to see you preface that with a "may."

See 1) above. "May" represents no lack of faith, but merely rational acknowledgement of actual reality, and how that last is always unknown within any possible future. Your standard west "certainties" however, are, as usual, most amusing.


"...and that, the shrinking west is, most certainly, evidencing rather severe symptoms of outright desperation."


HPDriver:Said the east guy whose seniority list is going to lose the EMB's.

EastUS: That certainly seems a very real possibility. Umm..would you care to wager on the longevity and likely scale of protracted ops attendant to PHX/LAS's futures?......Again..see 1) above Has it even EVER occurred to you that management would, most likely, just love to further draw down west flying, and that the only thing between you and that happening is the union?..which is...however inconvenient for you...dominated by the vast majority that are the east pilots? Just an observation Should any relaxation in the TA, by way of side letters/etc ever occur, so as to perhaps modify or even avoid a BK proceeding.....well...No matter...as I'm sure you would all just scream out that you would instantly sue everyone to death and that all would be well...but...you would be screaming and sueing from the street...separate operations and all that.

HPDriver:"And if I recall, the west stills has a block hour arbitration that has yet to be settled."

EastUS:Huh?...You can't even possibly, not even remotely,...now be implying that the hated USAPA will come through for you on that, and that you're actually counting on the union to do so...can you? :blink: I thought they did/do everything "wrong", and lose at every turn.....or...is it now the case that while you're optimistic about a block hours win...ummm...but yet..the LOA disputes are "certainly" dead ends? From which particular direction is the very variable west wind currently blowing with your latest?



QUOTE (EastUS @ Jul 31 2009, 04:55 PM) *
"...the current ROE"


Hp-Fa: Rules of Engagement?

Naturally

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (EastUS @ Jul 31 2009, 06:06 PM) *
USA320Pilot comments: There is a proper time and place for everything!

Indeed, and, per long established Alpa tradition; the place and time for instantly rolling up into an utterly pathetic, tear-drenched, fetal ball is always here and now. ..



Phoenix:

Indeed, sir. Even in taking the time to type that post... you are TARDY! Get with it! Chop, chop."

Your are correct sir!!...Arrgh!...My Bad! (dives for the floor..breaks into sobs...and belatedly hoists Alpa's proud White Flag/etc)...Criminy!...I just never could pass "Cringing, Crying, Constant and Complete Capitulation 101". Sigh...I'd have never made it into the "Big Leagues" in Alpa

 

[luvn737s]

Doesn't section VI A of the TA specify the Pilot Integration be based on the Negotiation of a Single Agreement, not it's ratification?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Click here to read one more reason why East pilot sentiment is shifting away from supporting USAPA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[nycbusdriver]

From last week's thread, someone mentioned an assessment of $500 - $600 per east pilot for the pie-in-the-sky $1.8 million legal fees for the west.

IF(big "if"!) those fees are imposed (HP_FA doesn't think the figure will stand...only less than half), it will not come out of the east pockets. It will come out of all pockets. Every pilot covered by contracts administered by USAPA will have this fee charged.

Given those things, IF the judge allows it, it will be more like $200 to $300 per pilot. The circus I've seen so far has been well worth that price of admission. I could spend way more on a nice night on the town in NYC, and this show has lasted years.

 

[cleardirect]

From last week's thread, someone mentioned an assessment of $500 - $600 per east pilot for the pie-in-the-sky $1.8 million legal fees for the west.

IF(big "if"!) those fees are imposed (HP_FA doesn't think the figure will stand...only less than half), it will not come out of the east pockets. It will come out of all pockets. Every pilot covered by contracts administered by USAPA will have this fee charged.

Given those things, IF the judge allows it, it will be more like $200 to $300 per pilot. The circus I've seen so far has been well worth that price of admission. I could spend way more on a nice night on the town in NYC, and this show has lasted years.

So far Seham has collected about $3 million from the east pilots. Add in this latest $1.8 million. That is just the price of parking. You have not seen the cost of the show yet.

The damages portion comes in 2010.

Add to that the lost dollars caused by delaying a contract several years.

It is getting down right expensive. But enjoy the show because you really are paying for it.

 

[hp_fa]

From last week's thread, someone mentioned an assessment of $500 - $600 per east pilot for the pie-in-the-sky $1.8 million legal fees for the west.

IF(big "if"!) those fees are imposed (HP_FA doesn't think the figure will stand...only less than half), it will not come out of the east pockets. It will come out of all pockets. Every pilot covered by contracts administered by USAPA will have this fee charged.

Just a clarification. I said "substantial", not less than half. Perhaps you were confused by my restating my earlier guess at the $700k figure which was purely an educated guess without substantiation. When I tossed out the previous $700k number I was being very conservative to keep from these two prior discussions with Megasnoop. (Here and then here.) The bottom line is that I try hard to be accurate, even when speculating, and I didn't want my estimate to be so aggresive as to be considered either controversial or, even worse, flame bait.

If you want a current guess from me it would be 50-75% of the $1.8 mil.

 

[Metroyet]

Given those things, IF the judge allows it, it will be more like $200 to $300 per pilot. The circus I've seen so far has been well worth that price of admission. I could spend way more on a nice night on the town in NYC, and this show has lasted years.

If you think that this whole thing has cost each pilot no more than 300 dollars, I have some ocean front land in AZ available for purchase if you'd like to see it. All said, this has cost Each and every US Airways pilot multiple 10's of thousands of dollars in lost pay, benefits, work rules, and lastly, legal fees. Given the time value of money the bill will be well over six figures for many pilots in the end.

$200 -$300??!!! Seham, is that you?!

 

[EastUS]

The damages portion comes in 2010.

Add to that the lost dollars caused by delaying a contract several years.

2010 will likely be an extremely interesting year for a great many reasons beyond the happily fantasized awarding of countless billions for the west in supposed "damages". I'm curious about that last though = Upon exactly WHAT basis is the west even assuming some, even ANY award for supposed "damages"?

Per the bogus bit about "delaying a contract several years"? Other than the constant employment of that little sound bite for amusement's sake; what can you even begin to offer to substantiate ANY claim that such has occurred, or is taking place by way of ANY union actions? That fact any nic-inclusive contract's about as likely to be passed is equivalent to the chances for a long and happy life for a snowflake in hell is certain, but that's a "benefit" to the pilot group that's been placed in by way of the nic and the west's subsequent litigation. You simply can't make anyone willingly vote to cut off their own arms or legs, nor those of their fellows....period! You're all obsessed out west with having the precious nic gift at any cost. OK then; Live with the consequences and stop all the whining!

You folks out there desperately need some new material.

 

[EastUS]

Click here to read one more reason why East pilot sentiment is shifting away from supporting USAPA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Now, for an actually rational observation as to the absurdly hallucinated "East pilot sentiment....shifting away from supporting USAPA"..click this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl5gBJGnaXs

 

[Phoenix]

Ok, Cherpy, I've just about had enough of unbiased "un-facts" and them touting them. .....

All pitchers are liars or crybabies. Yogi Berra

It appears the ALPAphiles who once were on board with USAPA have returned their allegiance to the mothership from whence they feel they can be rewarded with largesse for being sycophants. Are they disappointed that they can't fleece the sheep under the watch of the current union?

It is such a poetic irony that they accuse the current union of what the former did (and without equal it may be added). And they seem to make these false accusations in order to return to what they feign to abhor, but vigorously desire. That would be a "UCT".

 

[hp_fa]

Sitting at a distance I still see the same problem that existed before and still exists now. By and large it doesn't generally matter whether you call the union ALPA, USAPA or Joe Blow's Labor Union. Let me explain.

It seems that the previous arguments about ALPA really didn't deal with ALPA itself, but rather the people elected, appointed or volunteering their time to help their other pilots. A lot of the same people are doing the same type of work for USAPA as they did with ALPA and if the name changed to Joe Blow's Labor Union it is likely the same people would still be doing similar work. So I contend that most of the problems are really with the pilot's themselves in that not enough of the workforce offers themselves for election, appointment, volunteering for positions with the union or even taking the time to fully consider the various issues confronting you in your workplace and voting and making your considered opinions known to your fellow pilots. Change comes from within, not from changing the name or changing the firm that acts as General Counsel to the union.

 

[luvthe9]

Click here to read one more reason why East pilot sentiment is shifting away from supporting USAPA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I bet this comes from someone who was fired and got there job back and wants a job at ALPA national and loves the company for giving his job back and is a traitor to his fellow pilots. This is all BS. I have never seen such strong support for USAPA. No one listens to you anymore!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

It seems that the previous arguments about ALPA really didn't deal with ALPA itself, but rather the people elected, appointed or volunteering their time to help their other pilots. A lot of the same people are doing the same type of work for USAPA as they did with ALPA and if the name changed to Joe Blow's Labor Union it is likely the same people would still be doing similar work.

There is some truth to this I believe, are former APLO leaders had pretty much one goal ,which was to get in to national, regardless of what the line pilot wanted. That is no longer true we finally have people that represent the line pilot. Democracy works