US Pilots Labor Thread 12/30-1/5

[PA18]

And let me read between the lines for you:

East stays on LOA93 until a new agreement is reached and the west continues to get paid more for doing the same work.

Many West pilots take pleasure in taunting the East pilots over LOA 93.

And, quite frankly, the East pilots deserve to be taunted about it, having been bamboozled, or simply scared witless, by a corrupt management in cahoots with a corrupt union into voting for it.

Unfortunately, LOA 93 has also resulted in "collateral damage" on the West side.

Why do you suppose a larger proportion of West pilots are being furloughed and downgraded? Why are more and more East crews flying to former West cities -- through the West hubs -- every month?

Spend a day in the lobby of the Twin Palms or the Greek Isles and see how many East crews you see coming and going.

And why is that?

Because, as you say, "the west continues to get paid more for doing the same work."

So gloat about LOA 93 if you must, but spare a thought for your fellow West pilots who are being adversely affected by it.

 

[kubotapilot]

Hi 'direct,

You hit the nail on the head, date wise at least of January 19th.

Please feel free to enlighten me as to the status of the DFR case. Has this case already proceeded through interrogatories, discovery etc...?

I am sure that your legal expertise is way beyond my basic knowledge (hint...I actually employ an excellent small corporate law firm for my business needs). Please let me know how the DFR case has bypassed this process so I may pass this info on to my firm ?? It would save them and their clients a lot of billable hours in the future.

When is the trial date for the DFR ? I guess being a lurker that I have missed this info and I apologize sincerely in advance.

The only case I have ever had experience with involved a construction firm that quit in mid process after getting in over their head. That civil case took over two years and it was fast tracked through state common pleas court, not the federal courts that I assume have jurisdiction over the DFR. BTW, we won that case (using our same current law firm) after a two day trial. The majority of the time expenditure was Interrogatories, Discovery and Depositions followed by a very short trial due to the overwhelming evidence against the contractor. It showed me that the system does work. It also showed me that anyone can suit anyone for the any reason regardless of the evidence at hand.

If there was a failure of DFR by USAPA, I hope you guys win because this is how the system is supposed to work. The courts will decide either way. I just wouldn't be so sure of your timeline.

I apologize again as I am not fully engrossed in the details of your DFR and this may give you the appearance of me grasping at straws. That is my own fault as the airline pilot thing for me is more of a hobby, and not my career. I made it that way a long time ago and because of this I will never have any problem paying my bills.

I hope that you guys out there, East and West alike realize that you are just pawns in the big picture, a line item on the expense side of a balance sheet. Make the flying job your hobby, not a career and your outlook will vastly improve.

Good luck

I think that either you or your “little birdyâ€￾ misunderstand or are putting way to much importance on this new info.

First unproduced discovery is just that. It has to be passed over by Jan 19. It then has to be looked at and a strategy decided on if and how it use it. The next conference is set for March 2009. A conference is a progress report nothing more. Even if the MDA pilots are holding the gold ticket it means nothing right now. A trial has not been set yet. The DFR will have a trial and be over before the MDA thing sees a court room.

Second the DFR is not about how the list was constructed or anything else. The Nicolau list is not on trial. The way USAPA represented the west is. Again even if some list is pulled from a closet, it is irrelevant to the DFR. It has no meaning.

Lastly. You had better hope that your lawyer did not have a word with the judge prior to the conference. Any extra curricular communication without the other party could be bad for the lawyer. All pertinent information has to be filed with the court so the other side can see it. Check the court filings NOTHING filed.

Keep grasping at straws and paying the bills.

 

[toganoflex]

A very high up little birdy has told me that there is some very damning evidence recently disclosed during MidAtlantic / ALPA discovery that will rear it's very ugly head soon. I can guarantee it will piss-off everyone, west and east alike...gs.

The MDA guys have been spouting off about a golden BB for years and have yet to produce anything.

You need to understand that they keep feeding you guys this crap so that the money to support the suit keeps coming.

But keep hoping because its keeping the MDA pilot's lawyer in his nice house.

 

[toganoflex]

Why do you suppose a larger proportion of West pilots are being furloughed and downgraded? Why are more and more East crews flying to former West cities -- through the West hubs -- every month?

Your turn will come when Tempe starts pulling down the east's 737s. The next round of furloughs will go to the east.

And I've been doing a bit of east coast flying myself without seeing PHX or LAS until the last day of my trip.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Your turn will come when Tempe starts pulling down the east's 737s. The next round of furloughs will go to the east.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

 

[toganoflex]

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

And keep your head in sand if it makes you feel better.

 

[Phoenix]

Who Cares? No alleged "bombshell" information regarding seniority lists has any bearing on USAPAs failure in their DFR. That is what the lawsuits are about. The Nic. award is ancillary to the DFR.

Ancilary?

Yeah, like the legitimacy of gold (real or fools?) is ancillary to the value of your "Rolex".

Happy new year.

 

[V1cut]

I find it almost humorous to review the West strategerie over the last year...my my my...so many twists and turns...heck, full 180's even.

I'm not a member...

I don't want to be a member...

I'll NEVER join that "union"...

AOL suggests all the militants now join....

It's ALL about the NIC...

It's NOT about the NIC...

It's about DFR...

Either your counsel is bi-polar, or you guys jusrt can't seem to wrap your minds around your position in the matter. It changes with the wind...I can hardly wait to see the next evolution of the "master strategy to destroy USAPA"

Thanks for the laughs for 2008, you just can't make up this kind of humorous behavior....as embarrasing as it is.

( I had to try to explain it to a SWA crew in their J/S last week...we all laughed for 1600 miles over it)

 

[Metroyet]

I find it almost humorous to review the West strategerie over the last year...my my my...so many twists and turns...heck, full 180's even.

The Hybrid DFR suit that was filed against usapa hasn't changed one iota since it was filed. The nic. issue is subordinated to the DFR issue.

This is an indisputable fact. USAPA is being sued for DFR. Nothing else.

 

[V1cut]

Funny, anyone in the world who has visited this site in the last year knows I am exactly correct in my summation about the West.

whatever.

I had a friend who flew for an airline who was Teamsters'. He got a job with an ALPA carrier later, and was made to pay dues and join his carriers' union. The policies that ALPA had were different from his old union, the Teamsters.

He wasn't consulted about the new unions' policies and procedures either.

Think he has a DFR case?

See ya in court. And then the next court, and the next court...

$$$

Gotta take the vette for a drive, bye.

 

[hp_fa]

I had a friend who flew for an airline who was Teamsters'. He got a job with an ALPA carrier later, and was made to pay dues and join his carriers' union. The policies that ALPA had were different from his old union, the Teamsters.

He wasn't consulted about the new unions' policies and procedures either.

In other words he knowingly accepted employment at a carrier he knew was represented by ALPA? Then he knowingly made a choice and would not get far with a DFR claim.

How do you believe that fact pattern applies to the current situation re: AWAPPA, et al. v. USAPAA?

 

[V1cut]

In other words he knowingly accepted employment at a carrier he knew was represented by ALPA? Then he knowingly made a choice and would not get far with a DFR claim.

How do you believe that fact pattern applies to the current situation re: AWAPPA, et al. v. USAPAA?

Ah, the counselor speaks.

First, thanks for reinforcing the position that AWAPPA considered itself a "union" of west interests....a point I have made before...and one that may resurface in the future.
Secondly, are you suggesting that anytime a LEGAL representational vote occurs at a carrier that it's employees have some residual rights under the previous representational agent? (as it relates to DFR issues)
Are you suggesting that any airline who runs a legal and democratic vote for new representation of its members opens itself up to litigation if a new agent is elected?

I'll remind you that the NMB has sanctioned this union as legally in place...by a vote of ALL pilots, East and West, with no assurrances of the outcome as not all East pilots voted for USAPA...and maybe not all West pilots voted for ALPA....who knows?

Who cares?

 

[hp_fa]

Ah, the counselor speaks.

Factually incorrect, but thank you.

First, thanks for reinforcing the position that AWAPPA considered itself a "union" of west interests....a point I have made before...and one that may resurface in the future.

I didn't do that per se, but rather referred to the litigation. If you would prefer me to use the formal litigation name I will oblige in the future.

Secondly, are you suggesting that anytime a LEGAL representational vote occurs at a carrier that it's employees have some residual rights under the previous representational agent? (as it relates to DFR issues)

It is my understanding that the new bargaining agents assumes the contractual rights and obligations of the preceding bargaining agent. In this case that would include the arbitration award. It appeared to me that Judge Wake was having problems understanding many aspects of USAPA's position in the litigation and in how they formed and administer the union.

I'll remind you that the NMB has sanctioned this union as legally in place...by a vote of ALL pilots, East and West, with no assurrances of the outcome as not all East pilots voted for USAPA...and maybe not all West pilots voted for ALPA....who knows?

I don't believe anyone is questioning that USAPA won the NMB vote. The question appears to me to be what has, and is, USAPA doing with the authority entrusted to it in connection with fairly representing all the pilots and how it is handling its obligations that it assumed from the previous bargaining agent.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Secondly, are you suggesting that anytime a LEGAL representational vote occurs at a carrier that it's employees have some residual rights under the previous representational agent? (as it relates to DFR issues)

Certainly...

- If the new CBA doesn't fulfill it's obligations to abide by agreements in existence when it became the CBA so as to favor one group over another or

- doesn't fulfill it's responsibility to represent all pilots (in this case) equally.

A new CBA has the same DFR responsibilities as the old CBA, so employees definitely have "residual rights" that existed under the previous CBA.

Are you suggesting that any airline who runs a legal and democratic vote for new representation of its members opens itself up to litigation if a new agent is elected?

Same as above

Jim

 

[V1cut]

Wow...I got the paralegal and the Oracle all in the same breath....

I may need a minute.

USAPA did not hide the fact that their CBL's embraced a DOH format (as does almost every other trade union)...they didn't advertise themselves without disclosure, so the fact that they were the elected agent clearly made for some changes in "assumptions of previous positions"...no? )

I guess a few court episodes from now, we'll all see.


The car finally idles, so I must run.

Happy New Year