US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/28- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[RSVP767]

Nobody lost more than a couple of percentage points of seniority via Nicolau. The West actually lost more because of the 517 East pilots stapled to the top of the list.

Then you will be very pleased with DOH. Nobody loses even one day.....not a day!!!

 

[RSVP767]

I'm glad you like using that callsign because it took some extra effort on Ed's part to get it from the Air Force. It is pretty cool, just like Speedbird, Shamrock and Dynasty to name a few. USAir for decades has always had such a poor reputation.

"Speedbird", "Clipper", "Dynasty" and........."Cactus"?

Yeah, right up there!

I gotta say, that was one boneheaded move by another Ed B.

 

[prechilill]

"Speedbird", "Clipper", "Dynasty" and........."Cactus"?

Yeah, right up there!

I gotta say, that was one boneheaded move by another Ed B.

What call sign did you use when you were a furloughee?

 

[PullUp]

LOA 93 also includes an offset to the half pay. And also has a $75,000 cap.

So say your half pay is 65K and your getting 30K from PBGC and 18K from Walmart, you would only get 17K in disbability.

Another chess move from the company to dissuade pilots from doing as you suggest.

I just read through LOA 93 in its entirety and didn't see what you are referring to.
Please provide details.
Thanks

 

[luvn737s]

Then you will be very pleased with DOH. Nobody loses even one day.....not a day!!!

Yes, all the nights working the slushy machine at 7-11 while on furlough count ! And then they get to vote in a union that lets them scam their own by getting a medical insurance with no oversight or accountability. How do we even know if those recalled will have to give up their free medical? Heck just check off "NONE" on the insurance options during open enrollment, let the USAPians continue to be assessed and consider it reparations for all you've given up for this airline.

7-11 don't hire no dummies!

 

[N924PS]

I just read through LOA 93 in its entirety and didn't see what you are referring to.
Please provide details.
Thanks

I mis typed the cap. It is a $7500 monthly cap. The complete information is available on Wings or on the USAPA websiste (R&I Committee Library). East Pilot Disability Summary Plan Description. Here's a link to Wings but you must log in.


https://wings.usairways.com/uswings/benefits/summary_plan_descriptions/14_us_pilot_ltd_spd2008.pdf

 

[Black Swan]

It definitely has been relatively quiet, especially since the company filed their suit. Either there are many folks in the corn field, or they only like to post when the wind shifts in their favor. Obviously they are facing a stiff headwind with the 2 latest developments. (ie: company law suit and RICO)

I think they were caught completely by surprise, and I agree that they are in a major huddle trying to figure out their next move.

IMO, USAPA is planning their exit strategy just in case the company decides to stand firm on the Nic. If the east lose their LOA 93/ pay restoration attempt, USAPA's days are numbered. There is no way a majority of east pilots will continue indefinitely under LOA 93 pay rates and work rules. My guess is a major shuffle in union leadership, followed by a contract with Nic being put out for a vote with the excuse that the courts (or someone else) screwed them and they have no choice.

On another note, in some ways the company law suit could actually save the east in one regard. If they are forced to live with the arbitrated award and present a contract for vote, I believe the possibility of damages goes away too. I'm not sure about that. Perhaps someone could confirm or correct me on that. I further believe that in that case, the west RICO defendants would be wise to drop any suits against individuals in the east as an olive branch.

I have one question. How is a motion for clarification suddenly termed a "company lawsuit?" And if the east loses the LOA 93 grievance, why would a contract with the Nic suddenly be a way out for east pilots? Pilots who would supposedly be living under LOA 93 would then give up pretty much every upgrade for the rest of their careers, and more senior guys give up any widebody flying with the inherent raises, which put them above ANY west pay scale presently? Remember, this supposedly superior west contract pays the 757 the same as a 737. So they have their own little LOA 93 buried in their deal. They don't talk much about that do they?So an East pilot takes the Nic, and then gives up the widebody pay so a west guy can get a raise on the 767 and 330. This makes no sense whatsoever Jetzz. The fact you don't work here explains a lot of your misguided and misinformed posts. You really don't know the reality of the situation. Seriously. Are you really trying to tell someone like me, who knows and works under this, that taking the Nic and all the loss of seniority is a good deal? You just will never get it. The entire notion is ridiculous . Why would an East F/O with 21 yrs take the Nic, and then the majority of the West pilots cascade into every upgrade, every vacation , forever? Why would an East narrowbody captain with 26-28 yrs and able to hold a widebody but doesn't for lifestyle now, give up a widebody bid when shortly there are massive retirements coming that will make them senior on the 76 or 330 give that up? It makes absolutely NO sense. Unless you constantly pander to the west, then it is perfectly clear.If you work here and know what is really going on, instead of posing hypotheticals that really make no sense then the peril of taking the Nic is decidedly clear. It is the last thing you ever take in a contract. Explain the LAWSUIT please. It isn't one. If it is, I guess the west got "sued" also.

 

[Black Swan]

LOA 93 also includes an offset to the half pay. And also has a $75,000 cap.

So say your half pay is 65K and your getting 30K from PBGC and 18K from Walmart, you would only get 17K in disbability.

Another chess move from the company to dissuade pilots from doing as you suggest.

Then don't take the PBGC until 65. No offset. PC4 actually gets higher benefit the longer they wait. Checkmate.

 

[Schultz]

What call sign did you use when you were a furloughee?

What call sign did you use in grade school?

 

[RSVP767]

What call sign did you use when you were a furloughee?

I was never furloughed, thank you. However, many of our 'furloughed' pilots used "US AIR" as their call sign while they were 'on furlough'.

 

[luvn737s]

Pilots who would supposedly be living under LOA 93 would then give up pretty much every upgrade for the rest of their careers, and more senior guys give up any widebody flying with the inherent raises, which put them above ANY west pay scale presently?

Swan, please go back to the Nic list and quote the employee numbers for upgrades if the Nic were active today. It is disingenuous to say that east pilots would never upgrade. There would be a mix of east and west in any upgrade class. Under DOH, however, it truly would be forever until a west pilot would upgrade. And unilateral C&R's are no comfort.

[quote/]Remember, this supposedly superior west contract pays the 757 the same as a 737. So they have their own little LOA 93 buried in their deal. [/quote]

Better get used to it. It WILL be in any future contract with Parker.

 

[Barrister]

Do you east guys ever wonder why we laugh at Seham and his antics in court? It is because he ignores basic facts that are so easily proven wrong. Kind of like you guys. Here is a filing to the court from Seham again misstating that the merger only applied to the merger reps. The same thing that he tried in court the last time that no one believed.

Well representatives have to represent someone. Kind of like attorneys represent their clients. The merger reps represented the pilots of each pilot group.

This is what Seham told the court the ninth said, the other is exactly what the ninth actually did say. Judges really don’t like it when you tell them untruths. I think the company lawyers may have something to say about that.


Seham filing:


Ninth Circuit:

That is the only place that merger reps were mentioned. This was background not a determination. Yes it was the merger reps in the room but they represented the pilots not just themselves. That is like saying the court proceedings were between Harper and Seham.

Here is what judge Wake had to say about Seham's theory that arbitration only applied to 4 people.



This is what the Nicolau award had to say about who the parties to the arbitration were.



That does not say merger reps it says pilots. If Seham and usapa want to be taken seriously by the court he better stick with the facts.

If Sehan were a NASCAR driver and won the race you would be screaming:
YEA BUT HE DIDN'T EVEN LEAD ONE LAP UNTIL THE LAST ONE HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB
npjb

 

[Phoenix]

What call sign did you use in grade school?

Nice Avatar, but you may have to explain where it comes from. Those were the days when you carried a nickel for the payphone and it still had a dial.

 

[prechilill]

I was never furloughed, thank you. However, many of our 'furloughed' pilots used "US AIR" as their call sign while they were 'on furlough'.

Too bad Nicolau didn't care about that...

 

[767jetz]

I have one question. How is a motion for clarification suddenly termed a "company lawsuit?"

Explain the LAWSUIT please. It isn't one. If it is, I guess the west got "sued" also.

Wow! This is too easy. You really don't read anything but this forum for your info, do you? Just like the company accepting the Nic award that you argued and argued about and were then proven wrong. (Which by the way you never faced up to.) How about starting with your own union's documents:

USAPA NEWS FLASH

US Airways Seeks Declaratory Judgment on Pilot Seniority Issue

Despite earlier proclamations that it would remain 'neutral' on the seniority integration issue and allow the pilots to resolve the seniority integration issue among themselves, the Company today, July 26, 2010, filed a federal lawsuit in Arizona seeking to obtain a declaratory judgment. The suit, which was filed without advance notice to USAPA, was assigned to Judge Roslyn O. Silver in Phoenix.

Care to retract you comments? If you have so much heartburn with the term lawsuit, maybe you should take it up with your own union. IMO it sounds like some unnamed people are a bit sensitive since the they lost the little RICO suit. What's the word that seems to be so popular with the east? ... Oh yeah... "spanked."

This makes no sense whatsoever Jetzz.

Why would an East F/O with 21 yrs take the Nic...

I didn't say anything about east pilots taking anything. My hypothesis was based on the court telling the company that they are bound by the TA and the arbitrated list. (Which the company already accepted.)

The fact you don't work here explains a lot of your misguided and misinformed posts.

You are sure taking other people's opinions personally. I have been prefacing most of my comments with "I believe" or "IMO." It's pretty inaccurate to label my posts as misguided and misinformed when they are just opinions. And for the record there have even been a few more moderate east posters here who have recently agreed with me in substance. Perhaps it would be more constructive to debate and discuss rather than attack when people's opinions don't conform to your own.

And since when does a person need to work for USAirways in order to form an opinion? There are a couple of non-airline/non-US people posting in support of the east. I don't see you attacking them for being outsiders.

These types of tantrums really don't lend themselves to the discussion at hand, which has been relatively civil for a couple of days. Thanks for bringing the toxic stew back. :blink: