US Pilot Labor Thread, Aug 25th-31th

[GorgeousGeorge]

You guys should have jumped on the Wy River LOS when you had the chance. Unless Parker insists on LOS, the contract will be DOH with fences. snoop

That is doubtful without the MDA issue resolved. Every furloughed pilot would have to have LOS adjusted 2 yrs + and both the suit and the grievance are pending.

It was easy for ALPA to offer them up at WYE because they had already been doing so for years and were already engaged in a DFR lawsuit.

 

[machtuck]

First, I'd like to thank all the guys for the entertaining PHX crew news video...I needed the good belly-laugh.

It seems that no matter how loud or rude you get, Parker and Hemmingway just don't hear you...

(wonder why?)

Second, I'm on a trip with a Captain who is in the top 400 on the East list (unaffected by NIC)
and he soundly voted ALPA out because of the continual failures of ALPA to produce results for the pilots...(can't argue that one...)

Anyhow, yelling at Parker ain't gonna work, yelling at Hemmingway ain't gonna work...

your just going to have to keep entertaining us here...

I guess.

Happy Trails

 

[traderjake]

TOne more time, Traitor, WHAT case law? Don't cite Rakestraw. That's old and worn out. Rakestraw was about forcing the same union (ALPO) to modify an existing seniority list that was inbedded in an existing contract (UAL). There was no change in union representation in that one and there was a seniority list in place. Not even AOL/Leo can make that stretch, especially when theyll be up against their own merger attorney's court filing. Do I need to paste that one for you one more time? You know, seniority being negotiable?

Seniority is negotiable unless what you are trying to negotiate is illegal.

Did you really believe that because USAPA is a new union they don't have to follow existing law?

If you can't read and comprehend the English language I can't help you.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Did you really believe that because USAPA is a new union they don't have to follow existing law?

If you can't read and comprehend the English language I can't help you.

You mean like Jeffry Freund, the AWA merger counsel and AWAPPA attorney reads and comprehends not only English but the law? You have a rectal orifice which makes you entitled to an opinion. One can only assume "let my daddy vote" ignorance would lead a person to believe it worth more than both Freund's and Seham's opinions.

 

[EastUS]

Seniority is negotiable unless what you are trying to negotiate is illegal.

Did you really believe that because USAPA is a new union they don't have to follow existing law?

If you can't read and comprehend the English language I can't help you.

Thus far sir..all anyone's seen contained within your posting's essentially "attitude/I'm Right..just ask me", without the slightest shred of ANY substantive support for that fantasy...and in purest contradiction to facts offerred to the contrary.

"If you can't read and comprehend the English language I can't help you." Ummm...OK...If you say so Amongst the myriad blessings of a fairly free society's the option for any/all to personally determine just who it is that needs "help"

Please forgive me any evident ignorance, and simply excuse my poor efforts at ever approaching your masterful grasp of all things literary......

For the benefit of my own education..I'd ask of the following sir:

1) What part of any ongoing proceedings are "illegal"?..and in specifically, what way are any/all supposedly such?
2) How/In whatever possible way, shape or form, that you can assign, is USAPA doing anything at ALL that's not following "existing law"?

In addressing either or both questions above; specifics would be greatly appreciated...as I've had my fill of the BS...and we could all just train a parrot to sqauwk Rakestraw! Caww! Caww!..and perhaps free up some of your valuable time sir. The Devil is always in the details..and you choose to avoid providing even so much as ONE such detail for discussion.

 

[Eastisleast]

From EastUs "list that would ,intentionally and fully insanely, open the floodgates on training/displacements/moves/etc in a way never before even imagined anywhere?....I'm listening..What possible reason does the company have to love even ever thinking of implementing nic?"

Why would this happen? There is not going to be a system wide flush bid. When there is a vacancy any pilot at any base can bid it. If you think thats what the NIC is about your out of touch!

 

[EastUS]

If you think thats what the NIC is about your out of touch!

All ears here then..Ummm..just exactly what IS "the NIC" about?..Not that it's ever going to see the light of day in any case..but I'm curious sir.....
OK..I'm out of touch..Kindly fill me in....

Realizing myself to be out of touch now..I ask of you to kindly answer the following..that you missed or simply avoided in your earlier reply = "I'm listening..What possible reason does the company have to love even ever thinking of implementing nic?"

 

[Eastisleast]

The company could care less what list is used as long as it dosen't cost them alot of money. Why do you think the NIC list is going to cause all these training events??? The NIC list isn't about anything other than a fair merging of the two lists. Hopefully that answered your question? Now please tell me where you got the notion that all these training and moving and blah blah blah you were talking about came from.

 

[EastUS]

The company could care less what list is used as long as it dosen't cost them alot of money. Why do you think the NIC list is going to cause all these training events??? The NIC list isn't about anything other than a fair merging of the two lists. Hopefully that answered your question? Now please tell me where you got the notion that all these training and moving and blah blah blah you were talking about came from.

I see..so..then nic wouldn't result in any displacements at all then?...and no east pilot could/would ever be pushed out of their seats? ....then....umm..what's the big passion out west for even having nic in the first place?

"The company could care less what list is used as long as it dosen't cost them alot of money." Agreed. Now then: Which list would cost them less? One with fences that preclude coast-coast jumping...or nic?

The point is that there's no viable argument in favor of the company wanting nic, for any possible reason that I can see.

 

[Eastisleast]

No, there would not be any displacements. Everybody stays where they are until there is a vacancy bid. No wonder you guys are so scared of this NIC if you thought that was going to happen. Its realative senority, what your doing now is the same thing you would be doing the day the list is put to use. The passion for wanting the list is because your group wouldn't back off the DOH and has been holding us hostage. The process was done and we just want binding arb to stand....those are the rules we all agreed to right.

 

[EastUS]

Everybody stays where they are until there is a vacancy bid.

Umm..at which point a swarm of desert folks come east to slurp up the cream..including any/all east attrition...yup..sounds fully "fair and equitable" to us all out here...Be serious...Puhleeeaze...

"No wonder you guys are so scared of this NIC " Do you see any fear exhibited at all sir? It's no issue of fear..it's an issue of the BS meter, even if digital, burning out it's counters from a sheer overload.

Let me run just one good example by you sir. About a year and half or less back I was flying with a gentlemen "FO" who was then just hitting his 59th birthday, had been a reserve squadron commander, had approx 20K hours...and would have been "junior", via nic..literally to youngsters that were, at best, not far out of diapers when he started serious flying. Look me in the eye and try to tell me that I should think it "fair and equitable" for him to be placed in such a preposterous situation.....

 

[Eastisleast]

Umm..at which point a swarm of desert folks come east to slurp up the cream..including any/all east attrition...yup..sounds fully "fair and equitable" to us all out here...Be serious...Puhleeeaze...

What cream?...I don't want your seat. So its ok for all you to move out here and take our jobs. You never answered my question of where you read that this was going to be a big displacement bid. You should read the award sometime before you start making statements like that. I'm glad I had the chance to educate the great and all knowing EastUS :mf_boff:

 

[EastUS]

So its ok for all you to move out here and take our jobs.

I believe all out east are very much fine with establishing protections against anyone taking your precious desert flying from you...For your last? = Nice try..and you just aren't listening..What's new there?

 

[Eastisleast]

I'll look you in the eye and tell you that was the outcome of Binding Arbitration....you just have to live with the results. Next time try something other than date of hire....you guys probably would have been happy with the result and we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[EastUS]

I'll look you in the eye and tell you that was the outcome of Binding Arbitration

And..my response would be and is: "What's your point sir?"

It is a sorry mess to deal with for us all.....

Have a good evening, and thanks for some straight up discussion, even if we're not to be able to "fix" anything by these boards.