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EastUS
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Your words are duly marked sir, and properly filed right alongside of "You won't even get 200 Cards!"
US Pilot Labor Thread, Aug 25th-31th
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Your words are duly marked sir, and properly filed right alongside of "You won't even get 200 Cards!"
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EastUS
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Sheesh!..There are far better comedic dramas to be seen sir..Fer chisssakes..the democratic convention's in progress, and it's an election year...get a life.
Phoenix
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- Apr 16, 2003
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ALPA never went to court to engage in contract negotiations with the company. That's one of the few things they understood correctly.
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EastUS
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ALPA never went to court to engage in contract negotiations with the company. That's one of the few things they understood correctly.
"USAPA doesn't have a case to bring to court" That part truly continues to baffle me. No one goes to court over some dead skunk on the side of the road, at least that I've ever known of...I must be missing something here......
OP
prechilill
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- Nov 28, 2002
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You are, So when is USAPA going to present the company with their fantasy seniority list?
GorgeousGeorge
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- Apr 29, 2008
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Whenever they deem it appropriate. It may well be the last section of the contract passed between the company and USAPA's negotiating committee. I'm sure AOL is licking its chops to sue, sue, sue. Is that your interest?
East, I never said that. In fact, I was one of the few westies who believed alpa would be ousted.
You are confusing "negotiating with the company" with presenting a list.
ALPA presented a list, an ordering that depended on other actions to occur, none of which have happened. Like any former vendor presenting a proposal that is supplanted by another vendor, the "last vendor" proposal is dead because a required condition is a continuing business relationship with "the company". Since that relationship no longer exists, neither does the "last vendor" proposal, otherwise known as "the nic".
You really should educate yourself that there are many, simultaneous, negotiations ongoing, with many different parties, all wrapped within your simple statement, "USAPA is negotiating with the company." So, I ask again. With respect to "the nic", who is negotiating with whom?
As far as a lawsuit on presentation of a contract for a vote, there will be none, because, until there is provable "damage", it will likely be tossed.
traderjake
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- Aug 30, 2002
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Yep, you have an opinion, just like "Let my Daddy Vote". :blink:
The only opinion that counts is that of the judge in the West's DFR lawsuit when USAPA presents a contract with a DOH/LOS seniority list.
traderjake
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http://www.concernedpilots.org/DesktopModu...&Tabid=2912
ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx (application/pdf Object)
Rakestraw vs United Airlines
"a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another"
GorgeousGeorge
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- Apr 29, 2008
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There is no list being juggled. There has been no merger of the separate groups and there are two lists who have yet to be combined. As AWA's merger counsel Jeffry Freund so articulately stated, the Nicalou list was nothing more than an ALPA bargaining position for a joint contract and that is why there was nothing to vacate as the East ALPA MEC was suing to do. You can't vacate a bargaining position that has no enforceable seniority. It's simply a bargaining position and to give it any more relevance is simply your opinion and not won shared by USAPA's attorney nor AWAPPA's attorney. Those are AWAPPA's counsels words. USAPA is under no obligation to negotiate the way ALPA would have been compelled to by its C & BL's.
It took 9 years in the DFR case of COMAIR/ASA to force ALPA to settle. The MDA DFR suit is 4 years old and will reach resolution and nullify ALPA's past actions with the inproper lists/testimony much sooner than any suit by AOL. Nicalou which is now meaningless won't even be a memory.
The Dues/Maintenance fee issue will see a much quicker resolution though. Are you saving something in the cookie jar?
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EastUS
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Inapplicable to this scenario in a vast number of ways sir. Let's begin by merely noting that no single seniority roster even exists in usage here, hence..there's nothing to "juggle". All things are being done based upon two seperate and essentially DOH based lists at present. Show me/any where a single DOH list for all even can, much less will be effectively challenged...and why any such would appear abhorrent to the eyes of ANY court. We're all entitled to our opinions, and events will determine the validity of any and all of them.
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EastUS
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I meant no implication that you did sir, and am well aware of the AWA posters who previously offerred that "200 Cards" fantasy up...to little avail it'd seem. My response is merely based on the fact that your stated assumptions ring with the same reasonance to my ears, and appear to be motivated by an identical flavor of wishful thinking. Again = We, all of us, have our varying opinions.
Addendum Tazz: Whatever else is true of this mess...and for what little it's worth at all..I, most very sincerely, wish that none of us had ever found ourselves embroiled in all this internecine hositility and conflict. 'T'aint much good for any involved....and life's too dang short for this crap anyway...
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EastUS
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The company already has a fantasy seniority list, somewhere mixed into the "who cares" files, that, if they haven't completely misplaced or lost already... they can take out and laugh over...and two seperate, and actually REAL seniority lists to work from..with one collective one yet to come when a contract's concluded, or as agreed to by the Company and the Union
Sue away at your earliest convenience....please..It's just plain tiresome hearing all the whining about it...and we'll all have to keep hearing such for many YEARS...so you better get started asap.
Honestly..You've been wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME you've asserted some firm postion on what you believe to be "fact", or any/all "This time for sure" future events, for over a YEAR now..with one of your latest being your hearty support for the "authenticity" of your completely phoney "war hero" NLC. Why not give it a rest and see how things actually go for once? Failing that = Forward even ONE reason that the Company has for wanting to EVER embrace nic?
Megasnoop
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Traitor-Jake, do you really think we're that stupid and can't connect the dots without your ALPO-input?
USAPAs going to be sued BEFORE there's a contract? Where did that come from? Your old ALPO handlers?
One more time, Traitor, WHAT case law? Don't cite Rakestraw. That's old and worn out. Rakestraw was about forcing the same union (ALPO) to modify an existing seniority list that was inbedded in an existing contract (UAL). There was no change in union representation in that one and there was a seniority list in place. Not even AOL/Leo can make that stretch, especially when theyll be up against their own merger attorney's court filing. Do I need to paste that one for you one more time? You know, seniority being negotiable?
And to Tazz:
Tazz, we know you were there in negotiations and your history of what happened seems true, despite some spin. I can't agree with your predictions. USAPA doesn't have too much leverage this round of negotiations. We're not due for Section 6 for another 16 months. We also view concessions different than you. For you a concessionary contract is agreeing to a 10% raise instead of 30%. We know concessions. For us, it's taking a real pay cut, forcing 2,000 furloughs. We've been there, lost our pensions, 40% pay cuts, 20% vacation cut, work rules cut to FARs. For us, your contract is a big pay raise. It's not what Parker offered 15 months ago. You can blame that on ALPO and our 2 MECs for not jumping on that one. But for a short-term DOH contract with fences, West parity just might pass. You guys should have jumped on the Wy River LOS when you had the chance. Unless Parker insists on LOS, the contract will be DOH with fences.
Last, "The company already has a fantasy seniority list, somewhere mixed into the "who cares" files." East is right -The company really doesn't care. snoop
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