Us Gov Taking Over More United Pensions

[herkav8r]

A couple questions: How can the legacy carriers compete with the LCC’s if the cost structures are so different? The LCC don't have pensions and pensions are very expensive. They also don’t have great health care benefits.

How is it that United is raping the employees by paying them similar wages and benefits as compared to the business United is competing with and getting it's butt kicked by? Sounds like United is trying to pay market rate.

By striking and shutting down the airline, what have you gained? You will definitely lose your pension and you won't get the chance of getting a 401K. I think I would rather take a smaller pension, a strong 401K and a job versus starting over somewhere else.

Stop all this whining about entitlements. Nothing is owed to you. Last time I read the Constitution and Bill of Rights it didn’t say anything about a guaranteed pension.

Times have changed, and so should the rest of us.

I’ve been on furlough for 18 months. Believe me the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. United is not that bad of a gig. Float your resume on Hotjobs or Monster and see who bites. It is free after all and it might open your eyes to the job market and what everyone is offering their employees.

 

[Borescope]

The Constitution doesn't gaurentee it, but a contract does. There is a contract in place for now. There are other ways to at least protect what is there now, such as freezes. Look at Delta and CO Pilots, this is what they have done. At least some of it is there. The LCC's and the Legacys are two totally different animals, trying to compare them as the same is like saying that traveling by Greyhound Bus or a Limo Service is no different. The Legacy's have worldwide operations. Which is expensive to operate. You won't be booking a flight on a 737 to South Africa from the USA. When was the last time you booked a flight on WN to LHR? If you did they might have gotten you to MDW and then you had to claim your own luggage schlep it to ORD, check it in again on UA. Take more from the employees isn't going to solve the money losing operations, just look a USAir. They have some of the lowest employee costs in the business and I'd be willing to be you they won't show a profit anytime soon. "By striking and shutting down the airline, what have you gained?" A little respect from our brothers and sisters. Maybe a job at an auto shop making the same if not more. BTW 401k's are your money and the company can't take that from you even if they liquidate.

 

[FWAAA]

A couple questions: How can the legacy carriers compete with the LCC’s if the cost structures are so different? The LCC don't have pensions and pensions are very expensive. They also don’t have great health care benefits.

[post="255406"][/post]​

What's really eye-opening is that for the last several years, WN's retirement plan expenses for their employees (including the various defined contribution plan contributions/401(k) matches, etc) has comprised a larger percentage of revenues and a larger percentage of employee comp expense than AA's defined benefit contributions.

Seriously - WN spends a larger percentage of its revenue on its employee retirement expenses than AA does.

That's just one reason that AA didn't move to cancel its plans as part of the 2003 concessions extracted from employees; replacing the DB plans with a WN-like DC plan would have actually cost more cash.

AA has contributed hundreds of millions to its plans in the past few years - UA should have been shut down when it defaulted on its plan contributions. It's unbelievable that the IRS will quickly shut down a business when it fails to pay its withholding taxes (I've seen this happen) yet federal law does not require the same result when pension plan contributions are not made.

 

[JS]

That's because withholding taxes is cash that goes straight to the IRS (no comments on how wastefully it gets spent, just the mechanics of it).

With a defined benefit pension plan, though, as long as you're still writing checks to retirees, you're in that huge gray area between being broke and being fully funded.

For example, if being fully funded requires $1 billion in assets and having just enough to pay this month's retirement checks is $5 million, that's a $995 million difference between the two.

Obviously, you need assets in order to pay future retirement benefits to vested employees as well as future payments to current retirees, but that amount is subject to interpretation. What interest rate will you earn on the assets you do have? Assume a higher interest rate, and "poof", a plan can magically become fully funded instead of underfunded.

You can go underfunded for a while (not forever!), if you have a plan to make up those contributions (or maybe interest rates will rise and the market will do it for you). How UA convinced a bankruptcy judge to allow the plan to go underfunded this much for this long I don't know, but to say "UA should have been shut down when it defaulted on its plan contributions" is skipping over a few steps.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Herk,

How can you be so wrong?

A couple questions: How can the legacy carriers compete with the LCC’s if the cost structures are so different? The LCC don't have pensions and pensions are very expensive. They also don’t have great health care benefits.

They may not have 'defined' pensions but most have matching 401k's with health benefits.

How is it that United is raping the employees by paying them similar wages and benefits as compared to the business United is competing with and getting it's butt kicked by? Sounds like United is trying to pay market rate.

OK, pay me what a SWA mechanic makes and I'll shut up!!!

By striking and shutting down the airline, what have you gained? You will definitely lose your pension and you won't get the chance of getting a 401K. I think I would rather take a smaller pension, a strong 401K and a job versus starting over somewhere else.

We'll get our PBGC (as meager as it is) pension regardless if UAL survives or NOT!!!
401K is untouchable by UAL ALSO!!!

Stop all this whining about entitlements. Nothing is owed to you. Last time I read the Constitution and Bill of Rights it didn’t say anything about a guaranteed pension.

As far as my UAL pension being an 'entitlement' it 'is' part of my contract that I am 'entitled' to. I haven't worked here at the 'Lazy U' for the glory of aviation, benefits (including retirement) was a determining factor for my 20+ years of service. In addition, you might think about the poor bastards that have already retired.

They can 'take' it from us but do not expect us to 'agree' to it!!!

Times have changed, and so should the rest of us.

No thanks, I like my nads.

I’ve been on furlough for 18 months. Believe me the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. United is not that bad of a gig. Float your resume on Hotjobs or Monster and see who bites. It is free after all and it might open your eyes to the job market and what everyone is offering their employees.

[post="255406"][/post]​

Been there, done that.

B) UT