United Agrees To Give $1.5 Billion Note To P B G C

[uafa21]

Read the article in the papers today. It sounds like Ua is going after contracts of 3 unions including the f/a's. They will take our pensions along with more wage cuts and work rule changes, I will guarantee you.

It's along way from being over. Ua will take us down to the level of U, that's what they want. I also look for the comapny to start selling more assets. they have sold some properties and that is the start. Our aircraft numbers have fallen as well. by September we will have less than 470 planes. Maybe less.

 

[uafa21]

jamake1 - You say a pension was never promised to you. You need to read your contract. It was promised and is part of your contract.

 

[JAMAKE1]

uafa21:

If I am not mistaken, the pensions are underfunded by about $6 billion. I am just curious, how do expect a company that has lost billlions since 2001 and limbered in Chapter 11 for 2 plus years, to FUND your pension? Where do you think $6 billion dollars should come from when the company is insolvent?

To me, you sound like a person who at age 10, was "promised" a car by their daddy when they turn 16 years old. So six years go by and daddy is now unemployed and broke and there is no money for that "promised" car. What do you do, hold a grudge against daddy for the rest of your life?

And spare me the, "Why should Tilton be able to keep his pension and I have to give up mine?" routine. When you go to business school or earn an advanced degree and acquire a uniqure skill-set that is highly sought-after and marketable and hence, more VALUABLE, then you too can write your own ticket, so to speak. THAT'S the bottom line.

United Airlines is not our sugar daddy. But the good news is, YOU get to take responsibility for your own life and make new choices for yourself now that things may not have turned out how you thought they were going to be...

 

[kcabpilot]

uafa21:

If I am not mistaken, the pensions are underfunded by about $6 billion. I am just curious, how do expect a company that has lost billlions since 2001 and limbered in Chapter 11 for 2 plus years, to FUND your pension? Where do you think $6 billion dollars should come from when the company is insolvent?

To me, you sound like a person who at age 10, was "promised" a car by their daddy when they turn 16 years old. So six years go by and daddy is now unemployed and broke and there is no money for that "promised" car. What do you do, hold a grudge against daddy for the rest of your life?

[post="267490"][/post]​

Is this the same 'daddy' who sucked up a three hundred sixty six thousand dollar, 40% bonus last year?

Heck, I made about sixty last year, if you wanna give me a 24k bonus I'd probably shut up.

 

[JAMAKE1]

And I'll bet ya, he's EARNED every penny of it!!!

 

[JAMAKE1]

My point is this. If I have years of experience of leading a Fortune 500 company and I have worked my ass off to acquire the credentials necessary to LEAD a large organization and I have acquired unique talents and skills that MOST people do not possess, and I am being sought after by head-hunters, I am going to NEGOTIATE the best deal for myself. I am going to command the salary that I think I am worth.

If a company is willing to give me a $360,000 bonus as part of my compensation package as well as stock options and a guaranteed retirement package, to boot, I'm gonna take it! If I am told by the BOD that the company is bankrupt and my job will be to get the company out of bankruptcy, my reply to the BOD will be, "Well, I will do it, but it's more work for me so it's gonna cost ya!"

I'm a flight attendant. I don't have that kind of leverage. But I don't begrudge Mr. Tilton for having negotiated the best deal for himself. If I were in his shoes I would do same DAMN thing. If my home is in San Francisco, and I have to uproot to Chicago and I am going to be putting in LONG hours at work, I too, would want the most comfortable accommodation. I would want to be put up at the Ritz or The Four Seasons. And after a twelve hour day at the office in Elk Grove, I don't want to be driving back to downtown Chicago. I would want a driver too....

Come to think of it, I would demand a helicopter to shuttle me back and forth.

 

[hp_fa]

uafa21:

If I am not mistaken, the pensions are underfunded by about $6 billion. I am just curious, how do expect a company that has lost billlions since 2001 and limbered in Chapter 11 for 2 plus years, to FUND your pension? Where do you think $6 billion dollars should come from when the company is insolvent?

[post="267490"][/post]​

Why is the pension underfunded in the first place? It was a contractual obligation and payments should have been made on time. Perhaps the fact the payments were not made so often, if at all, is criminal fraud.

 

[aafsc]

Why is the pension underfunded in the first place? It was a contractual obligation and payments should have been made on time. Perhaps the fact the payments were not made so often, if at all, is criminal fraud.

[post="267500"][/post]​

One of the reasons the pensions are underfunded is because of the stock market decline after the corporate scandals came to light (Enron, Worldcom, etc.) When all these scandals were coming out , people took their money out of the stock market because of fear that the books could have been cooked in the companies they invested in. This huge loss of investor confidence induced people to get out of the stock market thus lowering stock prices (a lot more people selling than buying). Airline pensions contain a fair amount of stock. So these highly paid corporate executive types that some people love to worship are responsible for causing the pension shortfall while they reaped billions.

As far as UA's pension plans, assume they are underfunded by $10 billion dollars. Assuming this liability stays steady, if the government grants the wishes of NW, AA, and DL and lets them pay off the liability over a 25 year period, it would cost UA $400 million a year for the 25 years. In my opinion, UA should join the others in pressing the government to allow for the 25 year period and then if the government approves it they should repay their pensions over the 25 year period.

 

[Busdrvr]

Why is the pension underfunded in the first place? It was a contractual obligation and payments should have been made on time. Perhaps the fact the payments were not made so often, if at all, is criminal fraud.

[post="267500"][/post]​

I don't kow if you remember, but there was this thing called Sept 11, and the dot com bust right before it. In 2000, the pensions were fully funded.

 

[767jetz]

Why is the pension underfunded in the first place? It was a contractual obligation and payments should have been made on time. Perhaps the fact the payments were not made so often, if at all, is criminal fraud.

[post="267500"][/post]​

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

UA's pensions were over funded before 2000. UA actually made extra payments, which gave them a credit to not pay later down the road when they needed a break.

It was mainly the outdated funding rules and the stock market bubble that caused the pensions to become underfunded in the first place.

 

[boeing787]

You are correct!

 

[boxer]

....Also historically low interest rates.

 

[FWAAA]

WTF are you talking about??? If the face value of something is $100, and the actual value is $99, then that would be less wouldn't, but almost full value. Wouldn't it?

Talk about leaping to conclusions! :blink:

[post="265022"][/post]​

Uhh-huh. From UAL's own words filed today in support of its fraud:

In consideration, United will propose in its plan of reorganization to provide PBGC with securities with dramatically lower value than face value, and that will have no call on United's cash flow for the life of United's five-year exit business plan and will enable United to stay within the financial metrics of that business plan.

http://www.pd-ual.com/Downloads/Omnibus%20...With%20PBGC.pdf

Hardly leaping to conclusions. I'd say it was an accurate prediction. B)