oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Yup,TheDog2004 said:
And it's HIS plan that's killing this company to this day.
Us Airways Warns It Could Collapse By Feb.
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
And it's HIS plan that's killing this company to this day.
The same can't be said for the other workgroups. Pilots are about the only other group that might come close as most have a degree behind them and can take on a management type position anywhere. The same can't be said for the other workgroups.
I'm in denial... what degree could a pilot have that would put him in management and you said anywhere wow you must be kidding and what people skills or leader ship skills have you had to use in 20 years OMG please.
Although I have many pilots that are friends of mine even they know their goose is cooked ...I can hear you in the interview now so Mr. Doe what have you done for the last 20 years......well sir I sat in a chair didn't have to face anybody or talk to them if I didn't want to and I got parity plus 1% just because .so what do you think your chances are at getting that 75,000 dollar a year JOB are .....OH and I almost forgot how old are you..............Thats just what a company wants these days....
Just a note I have a degree as well and mine will still only get me in the door...
GOOD LUCK......
[post="184492"][/post]
[/quote]I'm in denial... what degree could a pilot have that would put him in management and you said anywhere wow you must be kidding and what people skills or leader ship skills have you had to use in 20 years OMG please.
Although I have many pilots that are friends of mine even they know their goose is cooked ...I can hear you in the interview now so Mr. Doe what have you done for the last 20 years......well sir I sat in a chair didn't have to face anybody or talk to them if I didn't want to and I got parity plus 1% just because .so what do you think your chances are at getting that 75,000 dollar a year JOB are .....OH and I almost forgot how old are you..............Thats just what a company wants these days....
Just a note I have a degree as well and mine will still only get me in the door...
GOOD LUCK......
Dont call me Shirley
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,270
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USA320Pilot said:
I think that many CWA represented employees would make the point that the company has not really devoted much time to negotiating with the CWA. It not so much a matter of "ignoring the point"; negotiations are tough enough without one side not sitting down to talk.
Many in customer service believe that they are the "red headed stepchildren" in the company's eyes. During the first two rounds of concessions, it was reported that CWA is less than 10% of the payroll. If true, I can see the company placing less urgency on how much of 10% to haggle over and spending more time on where the bulk of the money is. But that is no reason to "punish" the CWA group for not giving in earlier.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
JayBrian said:
You are missing something here....its just the beginning.
They will get the rest of their "target" in forthcoming proposals.
THE EMPLOYEES OF U HAVE BEEN FORCED TO BECOME THE DIP FINANCIERS. IN 6 MONTHS, THE PAY CUTS ALONE WILL TRANSLATE INTO $228 MILLION.
UNIONS NEED TO NEGOTIATE A RETURN FOR THAT FINANCING. BRONNER RECEIVED HIS $500 MILLION DIP WHEN U EMERGED FROM BK...LABOR NEEDS TO HAVE THEIR MONEY RETURNEDTO THEM WHEN WE EMERGE FROM BK, AND IT NEEDS TO BE NEGOTIATED...TELL YOUR REPS.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
This management group is the dumbest group of flunkies since Enron. Stupid, stupid, dumb, dumb, moronic.
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #36
PitBull:
PitBull said: THE EMPLOYEES OF U HAVE BEEN FORCED TO BECOME THE DIP FINANCIERS. IN 6 MONTHS, THE PAY CUTS ALONE WILL TRANSLATE INTO $228 MILLION. UNIONS NEED TO NEGOTIATE A RETURN FOR THAT FINANCING. BRONNER RECEIVED HIS $500 MILLION DIP WHEN U EMERGED FROM BK...LABOR NEEDS TO HAVE THEIR MONEY RETURNEDTO THEM WHEN WE EMERGE FROM BK, AND IT NEEDS TO BE NEGOTIATED...TELL YOUR REPS.
USA320Pilot comments: In a report to the pilot's, ALPA's investment banker Michale Glanzer siad, "based upon the financial analysis and our extensive experience in restructuring, the pilots' basic choices are as follows:
(i) Negotiate a deal within a low cost carrier cost structure and obtain vrious returns as part of that packge.
(ii) Elect not to reach an agreement with the Company and be prepared to accept liquidation or, less likely, the imposition of contractual terms that will be more severe than those proposed with the Company in a gravely (an possibly fatal) weakened position and forgo the prospect of obtaining any signficnat returns.
PitBull, bankruptcy is very expensive and the creditor's are not going to be very happy approving a plan of reorganization where they get "stiffed" and labor gets returns. Labor had its chance to get returns and when the union leadership failed to reach new labor accords, the opportunity to get returns was likely lost. Union leadership likely has failed again and hurt the rank-and-file.
We had our chance for returns and may have lost that opportunity.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
PitBull said: THE EMPLOYEES OF U HAVE BEEN FORCED TO BECOME THE DIP FINANCIERS. IN 6 MONTHS, THE PAY CUTS ALONE WILL TRANSLATE INTO $228 MILLION. UNIONS NEED TO NEGOTIATE A RETURN FOR THAT FINANCING. BRONNER RECEIVED HIS $500 MILLION DIP WHEN U EMERGED FROM BK...LABOR NEEDS TO HAVE THEIR MONEY RETURNEDTO THEM WHEN WE EMERGE FROM BK, AND IT NEEDS TO BE NEGOTIATED...TELL YOUR REPS.
USA320Pilot comments: In a report to the pilot's, ALPA's investment banker Michale Glanzer siad, "based upon the financial analysis and our extensive experience in restructuring, the pilots' basic choices are as follows:
(i) Negotiate a deal within a low cost carrier cost structure and obtain vrious returns as part of that packge.
(ii) Elect not to reach an agreement with the Company and be prepared to accept liquidation or, less likely, the imposition of contractual terms that will be more severe than those proposed with the Company in a gravely (an possibly fatal) weakened position and forgo the prospect of obtaining any signficnat returns.
PitBull, bankruptcy is very expensive and the creditor's are not going to be very happy approving a plan of reorganization where they get "stiffed" and labor gets returns. Labor had its chance to get returns and when the union leadership failed to reach new labor accords, the opportunity to get returns was likely lost. Union leadership likely has failed again and hurt the rank-and-file.
We had our chance for returns and may have lost that opportunity.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
[/quote]
I'm in denial... what degree could a pilot have that would put him in management and you said anywhere wow you must be kidding and what people skills or leader ship skills have you had to use in 20 years OMG please.
Although I have many pilots that are friends of mine even they know their goose is cooked ...I can hear you in the interview now so Mr. Doe what have you done for the last 20 years......well sir I sat in a chair didn't have to face anybody or talk to them if I didn't want to and I got parity plus 1% just because .so what do you think your chances are at getting that 75,000 dollar a year JOB are .....OH and I almost forgot how old are you..............Thats just what a company wants these days....
Just a note I have a degree as well and mine will still only get me in the door...
GOOD LUCK......
A pilot has leadership skills that are developed in the cockpit and are transferable to any management type job. Whether they want a position like that is up to them. Answering an interview question like your proposed sure would sound impressive if the answer was I took several hundred lives in my hands each and every day and I managed to get them to and from their destinations safely and professionally all the while under constant liquidation threats from the management. Even under these circumstances I excelled and did a great job. I managed a state of the art cockpit, dealt with untold federal standards, kept myself in superb physical shape so I could pass my yearly physical and managed to work myself through the nations most congested airspace on the east coast.
Good luck in your interview. Your degree will get you in the door if you're lucky.
I'm in denial... what degree could a pilot have that would put him in management and you said anywhere wow you must be kidding and what people skills or leader ship skills have you had to use in 20 years OMG please.
Although I have many pilots that are friends of mine even they know their goose is cooked ...I can hear you in the interview now so Mr. Doe what have you done for the last 20 years......well sir I sat in a chair didn't have to face anybody or talk to them if I didn't want to and I got parity plus 1% just because .so what do you think your chances are at getting that 75,000 dollar a year JOB are .....OH and I almost forgot how old are you..............Thats just what a company wants these days....
Just a note I have a degree as well and mine will still only get me in the door...
GOOD LUCK......
[post="184534"][/post]
[/quote]A pilot has leadership skills that are developed in the cockpit and are transferable to any management type job. Whether they want a position like that is up to them. Answering an interview question like your proposed sure would sound impressive if the answer was I took several hundred lives in my hands each and every day and I managed to get them to and from their destinations safely and professionally all the while under constant liquidation threats from the management. Even under these circumstances I excelled and did a great job. I managed a state of the art cockpit, dealt with untold federal standards, kept myself in superb physical shape so I could pass my yearly physical and managed to work myself through the nations most congested airspace on the east coast.
Good luck in your interview. Your degree will get you in the door if you're lucky.
TheDog2004
Senior
- Mar 26, 2004
- 267
- 0
EyeInTheSky said:
no that would be US Airways' PREVIOUS management groups that were moronic. the current one is pretty good, but the company had been damaged beyond repair by Wolf and Siegel.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
USA320,
Lakefield said in a USDaily voice prompt message that the returns would be industry leading EXCEPT....
If we went into bk.
Lakefield also told AFA in May, that they would not be able to make the pension payments and satisfy the ATSB test covenants at the end of Sept. Bk was probable.
I don't know if Lakefield spoke to you personally, but he did with AFA MEC.
Lakefield said in a USDaily voice prompt message that the returns would be industry leading EXCEPT....
If we went into bk.
Lakefield also told AFA in May, that they would not be able to make the pension payments and satisfy the ATSB test covenants at the end of Sept. Bk was probable.
I don't know if Lakefield spoke to you personally, but he did with AFA MEC.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
PineyBob said:
PineyBob, I have zero faith in these guys (BruciesBoneheads). That being said, I give this popsicle stand a 30/70 chance of making it into the Spring.
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
PineyBob said:
Piney, I love the way you think and I hate the way you think! So there!
First, the bad news. "Perception is reality" may be the clarion call in the halls of dry-cleaned oxford broadcloths, but the truth is that when "perception" meets reality there is a ledger to be balanced. Since I have as much decorum and respect as 320 "perceives" himself to have, I will give you two guesses for my question to you. "If someone is deceived, when their perception meets reality, is it their perception or is it reality that proves to be a vapor?"
How about a little case study to help with the answer. When Wolf came to USAir he peddled the perception that he was not coming to USAir to sell it. He was going to build it into a world-class carrier and made an order of 400 airbii to prove it. The unions of course had to tighten the belt and take huge pay cuts to help Wolf fund this "world-class growth" "perception". They liked Wolf's "reality" and willingly bought into the plan, several times. Many investors forked out 3$ to 80$ while they bought their piece of this perceived reality also. Since then there have been numerous opportunities for investors and employees to buy into several "perceptions" and all with equal ROI.
"Perception is reality" is a useful ploy to encourage people to make short term, here-and-now decisions, while obscuring or monopolizing the knowledge of second, third, and fourth order effects of reality, to the advantage of the "businessman". Enron-esque profiteering needed Ken Lay to help establish their perceived reality. Perhaps Ken Lay would guess the wrong answer to my question, even if I gave him two tries as well--- Just like the proverbial child caught with his hand in the cookie jar would twice answer that he was not steeling a cookie.
Enough of the bad news! The good news is that you understand cost can be reduced by means other than employee wage reductions. When I was in first grade they taught me about "economies of scale." It is a tried and true principle for increasing revenue and decreasing cost at the same time.
Herb apparently paid attention in first grade and everyone benefits. Steve, Austin, Ken, etc decided to trade in their first grade education for the manipulative technique that is wildly more profitable.
Herb understood economies of scale as it relates to the production of the product. Steve and his lineage understand the economies of scale for their product too. Only thing is, Herb's product was airplane rides, but the new Harvard math focuses on the product of "perception".
As long as the "perceivers" are running the airline it will continue to be transformed into an RJ blight while those airlines that are run by "economies of scale" will fly B737s for a decent living.
Respectfully,
Phoenix
to much time to quit
Senior
- Jun 17, 2003
- 318
- 7
Another dead line for the final death of our teminal illness. And the only treatment is more money outa the workers who make the airline run. Please, just pull the plug this patient is not worthy of any more medicine!!
USA320Pilot said:
Ok... In another thread, I pointed out that the company is looking to reduce Personnel costs by 42% (a $950nil reduction on a base of $2256mil)...
When is now a good time to understand that the 10% given by the Dispatchers won't be enough and the company will be coming back for more?
