Us Airways Union Struggle Nears

[PHL]

Easy to outsource?
.....
The A330s are not leased, they are OWNED by US Airways. (This has been told you many times!)

[post="177952"][/post]​

A320 never said they are leased.

And, that's kind of irrelevant in Chapter 11, when that maintenance surely can be outsourced if/when IAM rejects the imposed new contract and strikes.

 

[700UW]

The U.S. bankruptcy code provides for 60 days upon entrance for the debtor-in-possession to decide whether or not it wants to reject aircraft leases. Bruce Lakefield told the ALPA MEC that the A330's may have to be removed from service because they have required heavy maintenance checks due this winter that are very expensive.
REspectfully,
USA320Pilot

[post="177942"][/post]​

 

[MrAeroMan]

[post="177997"][/post]​

He never said in your quote that the 330's were leased. All he says is they are coming up for heavy maint.

 

[Rico]

FSA won't cross the picket line, and they can't be replaced as quickly as Maintenance. If ordered back to work by a judge then FSA will 'work to rule', which will have the same effect as not being there at all

Huh...? :blink:

How do you figure that Fleet Service takes longer to replace than Mechanics... I think it is the other way around.

 

[enilria]

Complete Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="177842"][/post]​

Reading this article makes me think of one person Charlie Bryan!

I was struck by two incredibly idiotic comments in the article:

1) Pensions are safer for the Penn delegation by not doing a deal

I got news for them. The pension is gone. There is no scenario where the PGBC won't be administering this thing at vastly reduced benefit levels other than an immediate deal. US won't contribute anything if they go into Ch11. That obligation goes POOF! Why on earth would they keep contributing after the judge says they don't have to.

2) The future of the company is entirely in management's hands

That's like saying your life is in George Bush's hands. While that may be technically true, it is 99% not true. Management makes decisions based upon the current situation and expected outlook. This comment implies that no matter what the pilots do management will do what they want. If that's the case then you might as well forget about #1 because with no deal the pension and probably the company is gone!

 

[michael707767]

In addition, with a possible Chapter 11 filing in the very near future, no agreement with the company, and thus no protection whatsoever for this pilot group going into bankruptcy. And what's at stake? According to our legal and financial advisors, our entire contract in now in grave jeopardy, including Scope (alter-ego airlines flying our A-320's),

[post="177942"][/post]​

Ah, I get it now. Its your job on the line, so suddenly outsourcing is bad. But when its my job on the line, outsourcing is good? Why is it ok to outsource the maintenance for the 320s but not the flying??

 

[D M G]

Huh...? :blink:

How do you figure that Fleet Service takes longer to replace than Mechanics... I think it is the other way around.

[post="178032"][/post]​

There are a lot less line mechanics than FSA. The company showed during the strike in the early 90s that the mechanics could quickly be replaced by Foreman and other supervisors to keep the aircraft flying. The Forman and other MTC supervisors are already cleared for security, so that step is eliminated. FSA on the other hand requires a lot more agents to turn a flight than MTC. There simply aren't enough managers to do the job as effectivly as the MTC department can do the line MTC jobs. All the managers combined in PHL couldn't turn half a concourse worth of flights during a bank.

Think what you will about FSA, but we will stand behind our IAM brothers and sisters should they walk, unlike other groups did during the last strike. We're union this time, unlike last time.

 

[robbedagain]

how will a judge view this if the unions get a chance to ask for a court appointed trustee to run the airline? to me it would seem the most logical thing to do but i dont know as i am only a mainline express employee

 

[PITbull]

Reading this article makes me think of one person Charlie Bryan!

I was struck by two incredibly idiotic comments in the article:

1) Pensions are safer for the Penn delegation by not doing a deal

I got news for them. The pension is gone. There is no scenario where the PGBC won't be administering this thing at vastly reduced benefit levels other than an immediate deal. US won't contribute anything if they go into Ch11. That obligation goes POOF! Why on earth would they keep contributing after the judge says they don't have to.

2) The future of the company is entirely in management's hands

That's like saying your life is in George Bush's hands. While that may be technically true, it is 99% not true. Management makes decisions based upon the current situation and expected outlook. This comment implies that no matter what the pilots do management will do what they want. If that's the case then you might as well forget about #1 because with no deal the pension and probably the company is gone!

[post="178036"][/post]​

Hey POOF,

United is in BK and their pensions have not been terminated. We were in BK in 2002 and guess what,AFA an IAM pensions did not go POOF.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Thank you, A320, for clarifying why the 330s are likely to be removed from the fleet. It is a sad day that US is so poor that it can't afford the scheduled maintenance that will come up on every plane that it will ever fly. Making the decision to pull out of the transatlantic market or be forced to fly the remainder with old, performance limited 767s bodes very poorly for US' revenue generating capabiity under any scenario. Europe provides a necessary revenue balance to Florida and the Caribbean.

If US wants the 330s removed from the fleet, it doesn't matter whether they are owned or leased. You simply quit paying the mortgage and they are repossessed.

It is fanciful to think that US can abrogate contracts and impose new terms on labor groups. Even if enough people from each of those groups choose to remain at US and no group strikes, the reality is that US will be dramatically downsized. The logistics of retraining and rescheduling employees with their new roles and equipment will seriously drain the little cash that's left and hinder the company from being able to operate even close to a full schedule. The only way US can be viable through a restructuring is if another investor comes in and gives US the money necessary to morph into its new self. Right now, it is far more likely that any investor would rather wait and acquire the assets without the cost of keeping US alive during the restructuring.

We'll all be keeping close to computers and the media this weekend.

 

[WorldTraveler]

PitBull,
are you living under a rock? UA has stated its intentions to eliminate UA's employees hard-earned pensions and US will undoubtedly do the same. Just because you haven't been hit when you're standing in the middle of the interstate doesn't mean you're safe.

 

[700UW]

One thing 320PP fails to tell you is the 767s are due for their annual maintenance check which is more costly then the A330 as the 767s are now going to be part of the Aging Aircraft program as US is the the main carrier working with the FAA on developing the program.

In fact there is a 767 in base maintenance now and the first A330 is not due for its first S-Check till March of 05, the company has decided to bring the first one in in November so they will be ready for the busy international flying season.

All the parts and workcards and packages are all ready in place for the A330. And the A330 S-Check is just a combination of all the annual C-Checks done at once.

And the A330s generate more revenue then the 767s.

Don't ever let the facts get in his way.

 

[robbedagain]

One thing 320PP fails to tell you is the 767s are due for their annual maintenance check which is more costly then the A330 as the 767s are now going to be part of the Aging Aircraft program as US is the the main carrier working with the FAA on developing the program.

In fact there is a 767 in base maintenance now and the first A330 is not due for its first S-Check till March of 05, the company has decided to bring the first one in in November so they will be ready for the busy international flying season.

All the parts and workcards and packages are all ready in place for the A330. And the A330 S-Check is just a combination of all the annual C-Checks done at once.

And the A330s generate more revenue then the 767s.

Don't ever let the facts get in his way.

[post="178111"][/post]​

what's the difference between a c check and the s check and how many folks does it take for the 330 to get a rev sayif it is not a full boat?

 

[700UW]

The differant C-checks concentrate on a specific system, part or area of the plane. Which is an annual check once a year. The S-check is all the C-checks put together when the plane reaches five years of age.

And the cargo pays for the flight and the passengers are all profit.

 

[PITbull]

Forced to negotiate what..?

It will not force them to change their negotiating stance, if anything their demands will become greater. BK, contract abrogation proceedings, and probable liquidation will do nothing but increase the pressure on labor.

Yeah BK Will force negotiations, so no more of IAM refusing to come to the table. How do you that is bad for the company?

This is not an episode of "Judge Judy", where she would make the viewers happy by telling off the company suits, demanding that they be quiet...

Abrogation will be the threat for most unions, and the hammer for the remainder. They will only need to obtain it from the judge on the few work groups they plan to work over anyways, not all.

If the majority of the major unions at Airways are onboard already, then abrogation is not that hard to get for the remaining holdouts.

Hello, this is reality, not TV.

[post="177974"][/post]​

Rico,

If management does not negotiate in "good faith" and abrogates agreements, THEY WILL NOT HAVE A PRODUCTIVE WORK FORCE THAT WILL TURN A PROFIT FOR THE SHARHOLDERS AND STAKE HOLDERS. Management does know this, creditors know this, judge knows this and labor knows this.

Only one that doesn't is you.