Us Airways Details Network Plans

[PITbull]

You've got to be kidding, right? Self help is
not an option with the union rank and file.
The vast majority of them are living paycheck
to paycheck and will lose their homes, cars,
and possibly families over simple contract
changes that will be imposed by a judge. I find
it hard to believe that anyone would give
credence to union posters who continue to
preach the "full pay to the last day" bull
fertilizer. It amazes me how gullible most
folks are on these boards.

Strike is NOT an option for Mangement and Bronner to TEST, either.

Those folks you speak of who live paycheck to paycheck will surely financially die if they accept the contracts and cost savings mangement demands.

There's no difference. Medical that is offered that is unaffordable, is like having no medical at all. Especially, those folks who will dismiss their sysmptoms and not seek medical assistance for fear of the out-of-pocket expense.

Its happening all ready with many in our group.

 

[USA320Pilot]

There will not be self help on this property.

If all unions do not reach consensual accords, then the company will enter a pre-packaged bankruptcy that is now being prepared.

If a union(s) do not accept the S.1113 changes, then the airline will likely be fragmented and any union without a S.1113 letter and fragmentation language will have their members become unemployed.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

There will not be self help on this property.

If all unions do not reach consensual accords, then the company will enter a pre-packaged bankruptcy that is now being prepared.

If a union(s) do not accept the S.1113 changes, then the airline will likely be fragmented and any union without a S.1113 letter and fragmentation language will have their members become unemployed.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Again, you've been listening to too much fodder from either your ALPA International who care only to save the ALPA organization OR bedding with mangement.

If their is fragmentation, U will only have enough to pay off the ATSB. Bronner goes down in the hx books as a "goon" who destroyed USAirways, and for recklessly investing RSA pension money into a BK airline.

I know the guy has way to big of an EGO for that chapter in his book.

 

[cltbay1homie]

Pacemaker,

Do you have even a little inclination of BK law? The judge does not impose workrule changes and wages. After a 1113 filing, unions and mangement have an oportunity to, once again negotiate in good faith. Their are 9 issues that a judge considers before consideration of abrogation.

If abrogation would occur, then the labor groups can accept the companies contract for labor or be released to "self help". If labor is released to "self help", which I suspect at least 1 or 2 groups would strike...

Its over for Dr. Bonehead, his investment, Senior management's huge payroll, and the employees. Game over.

and that would finally put this PIG to bed..Amen

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

If a union(s) do not accept the S.1113 changes, then the airline will likely be fragmented and any union without a S.1113 letter and fragmentation language will have their members become unemployed.

I can't wait to see how fast ALPA national cuts you adrift like they did with EAL...

 

[crazyincanton]

The vast majority of them are living paycheck
to paycheck and will lose their homes, cars,
and possibly families over simple contract
changes that will be imposed by a judge.

Unfortunately, the same thing will happen if we give the company what they want. The question is do we save the company by throwing ourselves under the train? We each have to answer that based upon personal circumstances.

 

[Tim Nelson]

There will not be self help on this property.

If all unions do not reach consensual accords, then the company will enter a pre-packaged bankruptcy that is now being prepared.

If a union(s) do not accept the S.1113 changes, then the airline will likely be fragmented and any union without a S.1113 letter and fragmentation language will have their members become unemployed.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

OK USA320Pilot,

Let me see if I got this right. All non-union employees; management; Pilots, and let's throw in flight attendants since their leadership seems content to manufacture and press forward with more concessions; will make up labor concessions as requested. But USAIRWAYS intention is a prepackaged Bankruptcy to immediately fragment the airline if it can't bridge the remaining $200 million in labor savings [CWA, IAM] and rejects the $100 million in cost savings offered already by the IAM. And if that happens, then there will be no self helps on the property. And ALPA and AFA will be spared because of newer, advanced fragmentation language and an 1113 letter in hand.

Now my opinion. Wishful thinking for ALPA members. the first part of the above paragraph is certainly plausible if your company frets over bridging $150-$200 million, however, it doesn't necessarily follow that any fragmentation language or 1113 letters will be finally protective.

If that is truly managements objective then I'm quite sure management can close the door and piecemeal? What could stop it? No employee has the power to get between it. It would also assume that all this talk of getting labor at the table is just positional talk.

My disagreement with you regarding this scenerio is that if management believes it can't get this airline off a collision course because of fuel cost or whatever then any fragmentation language will manifest itself as something other than 'iron-clad'.

As a side, could you please define your 'fragmentation language' that you envision?
And what makes you think that if a suitor does come forward that part of its plan is to get ALPA to open up the dreamed 'iron-clad' fragmentation language or threaten a 10th time to liquidate? This is big business and ALPA is a part of big business.

Respectfully submitted,

 

[savyinvestor]

Aren't there enough planes in the desert that are available? If so, no one would take U"s planes if they had to take the pilots. The majority of companies have there own pilots on furlough. Correct? Savy

 

[USA320Pilot]

Savy:

Savy said: "Aren't there enough planes in the desert that are available? If so, no one would take U"s planes if they had to take the pilots. The majority of companies have there own pilots on furlough. Correct? "

USA320Pilot comments: Incorrect, due to training timeline and the aircraft down time during the transition, especially with today's fundamental's. In addition, during Restructuring I ALPA created even tighter fragmentation language, which requires the pilot's to transfer with the equipment.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

In Chapter 7, the fragmentation language is not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

[E-TRONS]

You're on the money PITBULL.

I think that UAIR is underestimating the employee's disdain and hatred for all the overpaid execs. :down: :down:

I tend to agree with you.....If they want war then war it is......but everyone will die in the process.

Dr. Bonehead......that's great !!!

"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war..............."

 

[USA320Pilot]

Clue:

It might be in 7, but it's not in 11. ALPA and the company are working on this as we speak.

If the company files, this will be a labor restructuring for the "Transformation Plan" non-participants, bond holders, and lessors.

Regardless, it's just a job.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Tim Nelson]

Savy:

Savy said: "Aren't there enough planes in the desert that are available? If so, no one would take U"s planes if they had to take the pilots. The majority of companies have there own pilots on furlough. Correct? "

USA320Pilot comments: Incorrect, due to training timeline and the aircraft down time during the transition, especially with today's fundamental's. In addition, during Restructuring I ALPA created even tighter fragmentation language, which requires the pilot's to transfer with the equipment.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Again, are you suggesting that any fragmentation language is 'iron clad' and that ALPA INTL will not open it if a suitor says, 'open your fragmentation language or it's piss clams for you!"

My understanding is that you are standing on a fragmentation language box in a flood that will eventually rise over the top of that box.
I think what it really comes down to is that if the scenerio you envision or claimed to have been told, is correct then it is academic for ALL US AIRWAYS employees. i.e.., unless the fragmentation language says that you go with the aircraft with no seniority, no nothing, and start over at a $25,000 propjet type Captain because that will be the only fragmentation language that will 'finally' be available outside liquidation. ALPA INTL sure does make its members believe it is right there for them.
Also, your position is suggestive that a suitor actually would want US pilots and exactly what is your marketability for a suitor to want you unless you come naked and stripped of anything?

At any rate, interesting discussion USA320Pilot.

regards,

 

[USA320Pilot]

Tim:

With all due respect, you appear misguided. Can you show me where your comments are listed in written language, or is this your opinion?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

Tim:

With all due respect, you appear misguided. Can you show me where your comments are listed in written language, or is this your opinion?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Just like your group took two rounds of concessions to save your pension.

And MDA started up to give all your furloughees a job.

So far your group is o for 2.