US Airways East ALPA MEC Conference Call Update

[jack mama]

What does the East want to be happy? It is clear the list won't be merged based on DOH. What are the demands to make this "more fair"?

 

[Phoenix]

What does the East want to be happy? It is clear the list won't be merged based on DOH. What are the demands to make this "more fair"?

It would appear that the water is already poisoned, and an attempt to make it less poisoned or “more fairâ€￾ will be a challenge for ALPA and for the company. Until they ask your question and have an inclination to take action then it is kinda pointless.

I expect both will make a pretense of working toward a resolution while expecting it to all blow over.

 

[CactusFlyr]

The US Airways MEC agreed to the literal intent of ALPA's Merger Policy. The Nicolau Award clearly violates the Policy becuase it created a windfall for one pilot group at the expense of another and it did not minimize changes to career expectations.

Once again, your "fact statement" is your opinion, we all have different opinions depending on our views; which is why this one isn't going anywhere.

What does the East want to be happy? It is clear the list won't be merged based on DOH. What are the demands to make this "more fair"?

Who Cares???

 

[b737fo]

What does the East want to be happy? It is clear the list won't be merged based on DOH. What are the demands to make this "more fair"?

They want guys who were not employeed by AAA with no active job at the time of merger to be senior to guys who brought revenue producing jobs to the table. But that is not a "windfall".

 

[BoeingBoy]

What are the demands to make this "more fair"?

Using our resident "window into the MEC's thinking", it appears that the East argument is going to boil down to one thing - that one specific future chain of events, out of all the possibilities, is somehow carved in stone and irrefutable and that the arbitrator didn't make adjustments for that "guaranteed" future chain of events. Hence, "We was robbed!"

That, in a nutshell, is what the entire "career expectations" argument is all about.

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

Wonder how long it takes the company to find the East MEC not negotiating in good faith, trash the transition agreement, and go from there?

"Dire consequences." This from a group that was run over twice (three times if you count the pension).

 

[jack mama]

thanks for trying to clarify that...from an outsiders point of view it doesn't seem right for furlough to displace active pilots...so i didn't know if their issue was with that, or how they merged the list in between the top 500 east and the furloughs?

How did they merge the list? 1-500 east stayed 1-500, then what 3 yr east for every 1 yr west or what?

 

[BoeingBoy]

How did they merge the list? 1-500 east stayed 1-500, then what 3 yr east for every 1 yr west or what?

Nothing that simple.....

First, non-active pilots were removed from each side's list.

After the 463 East pilots at the top (representing the A330/767 Capt & F/O jobs East brought to the table), the lists were merged by:

The ratio of 757 captain jobs each side brought, followed by

The ratio of A320/737 Captain jobs each side brought, followed by

The ratio of 757 F/O jobs each side brought, followed by

The ratio of A320/737 F/O jobs each side brought, followed by

The furloughed at the time the "snapshot" was taken.

Then non-active pilots were placed back into the combined list, each immediately above the next junior active pilot from the respective un-merged list. This step is what made the 463 A330/767 jobs turn into 517 East pilots at the top - there were 54 non-active East pilots intermingled among the top 463 active East pilots.

Jim

 

[exB717Flyer]

I think it is obvious that the arbitrator had an attitude problem by his own words telling both sides to go back, re-evaluate their arguments and "get real" (I believe those were his words) before he went into hiding to come up with his "award." Why would he say something like this?

Because it's his job as a mediator and an arbitrator to try to get both sides closer together. Having an opinion is also his job and that does not constitute an attitude problem.

Those comments, in my mind, are a smoking gun that demonstrates Nicolau's inability from that point on to reach a fair agreement.

Your comments are a smoking gun that you don't understand the arbitration process. My source is a member of the AWA Merger Committee.

 

[luvn737s]

Using our resident "window into the MEC's thinking", it appears that the East argument is going to boil down to one thing - that one specific future chain of events, out of all the possibilities, is somehow carved in stone and irrefutable and that the arbitrator didn't make adjustments for that "guaranteed" future chain of events. Hence, "We was robbed!"

That, in a nutshell, is what the entire "career expectations" argument is all about.

Jim

The clarity that comes from a Sea Level cabin altitude! Right on!

 

[Phoenix]

... My source is a member of the AWA Merger Committee.

Now that is an impatial advocate of your position. B)

Using our resident "window into the MEC's thinking", it appears that the East argument is going to boil down to one thing - that one specific future chain of events, out of all the possibilities, is somehow carved in stone and irrefutable and that the arbitrator didn't make adjustments for that "guaranteed" future chain of events. Hence, "We was robbed!"

That, in a nutshell, is what the entire "career expectations" argument is all about.

Jim

Maybe I am missing your point.

If mandatory retirements and DOH are not the two most concrete factors a pilot inherently gravitates toward when assessing one's "career expectations", then pray tell what is more representative? Or what should be used instead (to the exclusion of both of them) if Solomon were required to divide the question?

 

[crzyskygal]

Well easties get over yourselves!!!!! This is the only work group on the West side that received a fair AND EQUITABLE integration.

DO you still have a job??

Do you still make enough money for food on the table and a roof over your head???

If you feel broke because you lived to high on the hog before tough, life tends to slap you down when you have to much pride inside!!

Now pass the crew juice and lets create a great place to work. Or be bitter and we(west) will keep the crew juice to ourselves.

 

[autofixer]

Well easties get over yourselves!!!!! This is the only work group on the West side that received a fair AND EQUITABLE integration.

DO you still have a job??

Do you still make enough money for food on the table and a roof over your head???

If you feel broke because you lived to high on the hog before tough, life tends to slap you down when you have to much pride inside!!

Now pass the crew juice and lets create a great place to work. Or be bitter and we(west) will keep the crew juice to ourselves.

Are you crazy? This will never be a great place to work. Otis and the boys will squeeze all of the equity out of this dog and move on, crushing the employees with the heal of their boot. You must get what you can, when you can.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If mandatory retirements and DOH are not the two most concrete factors a pilot inherently gravitates toward when assessing one's "career expectations", then pray tell what is more representative?

Yes, you miss the point. While both retirement and DOH are carved in stone, what either gets you in the future (your expectations) are not.

You tell me - what benefit did the "concrete factors" of DOH and retirements do for the junior active East pilot from 1992 till 1997? Or from 2002 till 2006? Did DOH move him/her from the bottom active pilot position? Did retirement move him/her from the bottom active pilot position? Did DOH and retirements recall any furloughed pilots during those periods, much less make them A330 Captains?

People talk about the advancement that retirements "will" (unconditionally) bring in 10 years. That junior active (or even the junior furloughed pilot on the East list) - just how much advancement has he/she seen since 1991? A period of 16 years.

What the future brings is dependent on more factors than DOH and retirements, many of which can have a much more profound effect. The East's last 16 years should have taught them that, but apparently it didn't for many.....

Jim

 

[exB717Flyer]

Now that is an impatial advocate of your position.

Actually, I was citing him to state facts, not opinions, about the arbitration process. I didn't attend the hearings but he did.