US Airways East ALPA MEC Conference Call Update

[Phoenix]

Another point about the power entrusted to the arbitrator: s/he technically doesn't even have to follow ALPA Merger Policy (though by all accounts he should).

Some folks are comfortable with the idea that a union isn't (and even some think they shouldn’t) in the end be responsible to distinguish an integration of its members.

It seems counter intuitive to me that anyone would find it acceptable to pay dues to an organization they can’t trust to handle the most basic of issues that accompanies being part of the organization to which they pay. It is an inherent question that speaks to the purpose of a union. B)

 

[CactusFlyr]

So many don't seem to understand this concept but IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE EAST WANTS. It's all over. No appeals in binding arbitration. none. ever...never..ever...

There won't be much sympathy from Alpa national either. The east reached way too far and it backfired. It was their own ill conceived plan to chase DOH (LOS is the same in this case) at all costs.

I agree, but there is a certain entertainment value in listening to these guys try to squirm their way out of this one.

Jack,

Jack said: "What does the East want to be happy? It is clear the list won't be merged based on DOH. What are the demands to make this "more fair"?"

USA320Pilot comments: In my opinion, a fair compromise would be to let the Nicolau Award stand, but negotiate an agreement between the parties for a meaningful fence that would prevent East pilots from bidding PHX/LAS crew based and West pilots from bidding East Coast bases. In addition, there would be shared growth and shared scope protections (minimum East/West fleet counts, minimum block hours, minimum pilot positions, and shared furloughs).

This way each pilot group would maintain its pre-merger career expectations and the combined pilot group could negotiate a joint CBA.





If something like this does not happen the majority ALPA East pilots are ready to go to war with their West breathern.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

You are late on this one. Negotiation time was months ago, get it????

 

[nycbusdriver]

Some folks are comfortable with the idea that a union isn't (and even some think they shouldn’t) in the end be responsible to distinguish an integration of its members.

It seems counter intuitive to me that anyone would find it acceptable to pay dues to an organization they can’t trust to handle the most basic of issues that accompanies being part of the organization to which they pay. It is an inherent question that speaks to the purpose of a union. B)

ALPA stopped being a union when the Deregulation Act of 1978 was signed and they didn't immediately plan and institute a national seniority list. This set up the inevitable scenario we are now living due to their lack of vision, or arrogant obstinacy.

 

[jack mama]

Does the West group oppose fences?

Seems fair if the groups don't want to become one, which seems impossible at this point...

 

[aquagreen73s]

ALPA stopped being a union when the Deregulation Act of 1978 was signed and they didn't immediately plan and institute a national seniority list. This set up the inevitable scenario we are now living due to their lack of vision, or arrogant obstinacy.

And if Wolf had entered a purchase agreement with TWA in 2000, you would have been the first to scream bloody murder and that straight DOH with TWA would be a sin.

 

[Phoenix]

And if Wolf had entered a purchase agreement with TWA in 2000, you would have been the first to scream bloody murder and that straight DOH with TWA would be a sin.

His point was that ALPA’s claim to being a union is problematic. It is evident in two ways. 1) its policy establishes a situation where it members are left to fight amongst themselves for so basic a tenet as seniority. 2) the unions policy inevitably results in the necessity for an outside party to shoulder the responsibility of a decision, which by its very nature demonstrates there is no provision for unity.

Ergo they are not in the same classification as the Teamsters union, who has a national freight agreement in trucking.

 

[BoeingBoy]

His point was that ALPA’s claim to being a union is problematic.

As far as I'm concerned, ALPA stopped being a national union a long time ago. When was the last time, for example, that they turned down a contract agreement on the grounds that it was bad for the profession? During East's travels thru 2 BK's, the "advice" seemed to be only "Just get a deal, any deal". That type of advice protects the flow of dues, but does little to uphold the standards of profession.

ALPA today is little more than a national association of multiple pilot unions. It was probably inevitable - the industry has become fractured among several unions and no pilot group is interested in falling on it's sword for the benefit of the profession.

Having said that, I've also always said that ALPA is better than no union at all. And that an in-house union would be no better (though maybe cheaper) as long as the same bozo's were in office.

 

[Phoenix]

..

Having said that, I've also always said that ALPA is better than no union at all. And that an in-house union would be no better (though maybe cheaper) as long as the same bozo's were in office.

I wonder… are the bozos leading APA less “a bozoâ€￾ because they were born with different chromosomes or is it simply that they aren’t obligated to be cheerleaders for the national pom-pom squad?

I mean when did an ALAP group get slapped with a 45.5 Mil judgment (7 Mil more than APA’s net worth), and then stuff the bill down the company’s throat.

And in case we wonder if they learned their lesson from the judge, they are now proposing a 30.5% pay raise.

Could USAir paisley pupets stand on their own if the pupet master took his hand out?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Could USAir paisley pupets stand on their own if the pupet master took his hand out?

Look no further than our resident self-proclaimed "Leader of the GAG"......

When he feels his job is in jeopardy, no concession is too great for the group to pay - does the phrase "capitulate and give the company far in excess of $295 million a year" ring a bell?

With that kind of "leadership", keep your expectations low and you won't be too disappointed.

Jim

 

[b737fo]

Does the West group oppose fences?

Seems fair if the groups don't want to become one, which seems impossible at this point...

To be honest I don't think we in the West have really thought about a fence scenario in reference to domiciles since, to my knowledge, it was never talked about by the MCs. If it was so important to the East as an insurance policy to your attrition argument then why did your MC not really push the idea over a year and a half of negotiations, mediation, arbitration, and then one final mediation attempt?

 

[Phoenix]

Look no further than our resident self-proclaimed "Leader of the GAG"......

When he feels his job is in jeopardy, no concession is too great for the group to pay - does the phrase "capitulate and give the company far in excess of $295 million a year" ring a bell?

With that kind of "leadership", keep your expectations low and you won't be too disappointed.

Jim

And USAir ALPA pilots can lower their expectations how? :unsure: :huh: :unsure: :huh: :blink: h34r:

 

[EastUS]

To be honest I don't think we in the West have really thought about a fence scenario in reference to domiciles since, to my knowledge, it was never talked about by the MCs.

It's my belief that fences would serve to allow us to all go forward as an actual group. This also seems the most reasonable solution to what's otherwise going to prove a miserable situation for everyone. I cannot imagine any semblance of "pilot unity" between east/west at this point otherwise. With out said pilot unity...we're ALL clearly left without hope for any decent contract, as mgmt can/will play west off against eaat to our mutual detriment.

 

[AWA320]

It would appear that the water is already poisoned, and an attempt to make it less poisoned or “more fairâ€￾ will be a challenge for ALPA and for the company. Until they ask your question and have an inclination to take action then it is kinda pointless.

I expect both will make a pretense of working toward a resolution while expecting it to all blow over.

OK,

Let me be totally clear!! There will be no after the fact deals!!! The east MEC/MC had several opportunities to make a deal and they flat refused. The only option now that our pilots will get behind and support is higher pay and much better work rules MUCH HIGHER AND MUCH BETTER...

 

[EastUS]

OK,

Let me be totally clear!! There will be no after the fact deals!!!"

Then we're all pretty much scrooched. Barring some astonishingly generous contract...which, if we believe mgmt at all, has already been eliminated as a possibility, there's absolutely ZERO reason for the east to expeditiously get on board with ANYTHING.

 

[Hawkhunter]

OK,

Let me be totally clear!! There will be no after the fact deals!!! The east MEC/MC had several opportunities to make a deal and they flat refused. The only option now that our pilots will get behind and support is higher pay and much better work rules MUCH HIGHER AND MUCH BETTER...

Let me be totally clear! F$#k You!