US Airways & AFA Reach Tentative Agreement

[Move2CLT]

US Airways Flight Attendant Deal Could Help Merger Effort[/b]


Never before at US Airways have flight attendants made a contract deal ahead of the pilots


What am I missing? I thought the pilots haven't had a contract deal since the AWA merger how many years ago?

Doug should be fired for incompetence on this issue alone.

It's not Doug's job to get us contracts.

The incompetence is with the union.

 

[SparrowHawk]

ame='whatkindoffreshhell' timestamp='1327791271' post='865573']

It's not Doug's job to get us contracts.

The incompetence is with the union.

Doug Parker is the "Leader" of US Airways! The buck starts and stops with him. Part of the reason he collects 14 million is for his alleged ability to deal with Unions, incompetent or otherwise.

This is Capitalism 101 try to keep up.

 

[Move2CLT]

Doug Parker is the "Leader" of US Airways! The buck starts and stops with him. Part of the reason he collects 14 million is for his alleged ability to deal with Unions, incompetent or otherwise.

This is Capitalism 101 try to keep up.

"Alleged" ability?

I think we can move beyond the "alleged" part. He's shut down USAPA completely while keeping the east on bottom scale wages. What's even worse, he's convinced most of those east guys that its OK to be LOA93.

 

[Black Swan]

CG is unabashedly pro company.

What CG says is from a management point of view.

CG is useful against the pilots but just another company shill.

Take CG for what he/she is worth.

Not much to us.

Amen

 

[SparrowHawk]

"Alleged" ability?

I think we can move beyond the "alleged" part. He's shut down USAPA completely while keeping the east on bottom scale wages. What's even worse, he's convinced most of those east guys that its OK to be LOA93.

I'll stick with "alleged" as a REAL leader would have found a way to have this pilot fiasco wrapped up by now. But he just couldn't get past his bean counter, "price of everything value of nothing" approach to business.

Now he finds the negotiations "parked" and a lucrative merger possibility and here he is left holding his schwanzola. Astute? I think not.

 

[Move2CLT]

I'll stick with "alleged" as a REAL leader would have found a way to have this pilot fiasco wrapped up by now. But he just couldn't get past his bean counter, "price of everything value of nothing" approach to business.

Now he finds the negotiations "parked" and a lucrative merger possibility and here he is left holding his schwanzola. Astute? I think not.

Saving a quarter of a billion a year in pilot labor costs.

Top three (most of the time) in DOT measures - I do remember a few triple play checks.

Why is "parked" bad for Parker?

Lucrative merger? He hasn't been shut out of it, has he? Nope.

Stock price? How's it been doing the past few days?

How about a little less emotion and more analytics.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Saving a quarter of a billion a year in pilot labor costs.

Top three (most of the time) in DOT measures - I do remember a few triple play checks.

Why is "parked" bad for Parker?

Lucrative merger? He hasn't been shut out of it, has he? Nope.

Stock price? How's it been doing the past few days?

How about a little less emotion and more analytics.

How about KMA in Macy's window?

Where did you get the quarter billion from? Besides if the Pilot group had a single contract the "Synergies" promised would have materialized.

That would have positioned US to be involved in the UA/CO merger and who knows what else was never even mentioned due to Labor unrest.

Top Three? OR the Top Three as defined by the TFB's (Temoe Frat Boys) I was ALWAYS in the top three in sales at my office. Trouble was there were only three reps! 😀

Why? Because any open issue like labor strife could throw a monkey wrench into any merger

No! However every open issue makes a merger more challenging

Who cares about stock price? Stock Market is in many cases not indicative of the health of the company

You have to face facts. Doug Parker excels at one thing. Blindly following the spread sheet. It bit him with the DUI/DL event and now we shall see if it bites again

 

[Move2CLT]

How about KMA in Macy's window?

Where did you get the quarter billion from? Besides if the Pilot group had a single contract the "Synergies" promised would have materialized.

That would have positioned US to be involved in the UA/CO merger and who knows what else was never even mentioned due to Labor unrest.

Top Three? OR the Top Three as defined by the TFB's (Temoe Frat Boys) I was ALWAYS in the top three in sales at my office. Trouble was there were only three reps! 😀

Why? Because any open issue like labor strife could throw a monkey wrench into any merger

No! However every open issue makes a merger more challenging

Who cares about stock price? Stock Market is in many cases not indicative of the health of the company

You have to face facts. Doug Parker excels at one thing. Blindly following the spread sheet. It bit him with the DUI/DL event and now we shall see if it bites again

This latest post shows complete ignorance in airline operations. You are the typical example of a passenger who flies too much and thinks his miles make him an expert.

Ok, let the edification begin.

Using the Kirby proposal as a baseline, by the east not being up to parity the company is saving an estimated $6M A WEEK in pilot labor costs (a very conservative number BTW).

95% of the synergies have already been recognized. The remaining 5% is more than offset by LOA93.

The UAL merger had nothing to do with USAPA and everything to do with CAL jumping into the game. Only an idiot would think that USAPA had any leverage to stop that merger if the money wanted it to happen.

Labor can be bought at any time.

If you don't know how to compare us to the top three peer airlines then I can't help you there. My TPPs have been nice additions to my checks and I received a nice amount of them this year.

Considering you don't work here, you wouldn't understand just how much Parker has done to keep AWA and now USA going. I think you feel good just bitching about Parker without really digging deep and looking at facts.

Wall Street likes him and that's all that matters.

 

[Onestep2flt]

I have not posted on us aviation for a long while. Part of the reason is most of the threads here seem to have pilot creep syndrome. Almost every thread here has to take a dose of pilot politics. With 4,037 pages and 32,294 posts in the pilot labor thread it is already evident that you all don't get along. Everyone here is quite aware of your situation. Sorry about your issues. I even tried to post a couple times in the pilot thread to bring a non pilot perspective. The problem I saw there was you seem to have to choose sides like some sort of childish school ground clique. Not trying to bash, just pointing out that other issues exist outside the pilot thread and it would be nice to see at least one thread stay on topic!

Now, what was the original topic?

Although not a big lead, you actually seem to be in a position of advantage with your company now. It took almost seven years to this point? Now all of the sudden within the last month or so the company is spending tireless nights in bed with Mr. Flores to hammer out a contract? Does this not seem odd to anyone? I know you were in mediated talks and many of you were worried about those talks being set aside which was a legitimate concern. As I pointed out a long time ago that does not completely mean you are doomed. Even if you are recessed by a mediator there are no legal reasons that the two sides can not come to agreement on there own. Why do I bring this up now that you have a tentative agreement? Why I certainly would not tell people how to vote, the sentiment on this web board is that most seem to believe that from the sections that are known about and closed that this is probably not a very good agreement. Assuming a majority feel this way, it is now your time to shine. You have the opportunity to vote no and send it back! There is still a chance that the mediator good recess you. There is still a chance that the company could tell you to go pound sand. The likelihood of the latter though are much less now that your CEO has admitted that they are "looking at all options regarding AMR" and that just hours after this agreement was announced that all of the sudden Delta is looking at Airways now. There should be nobody that believes that this was not all by design at this point. Up until these latest revelations there would have been no reason for your company to finish your negotiations. I am pretty sure that a recess from the mediator would be no worry for your company if there was no motivation elsewhere. Again, you have to look at all the pieces of this puzzle for yourself. I would recommend to proceed with diligence and caution. You guys have more options now. Your company wants something and you don't have to hand it to them on a platter at this point in my opinion.

It will be interesting to see how your "MEC" decides to handle this. If it is indeed a less than desirable agreement for ALL flight attendants will the "MEC" actually have the will to send it back or will it just be put on the members shoulders to bare all the responsibility. I wish everyone the best on this one. I hope if it is sent out for a vote that there is not the typical voter apathy regardless the outcome.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

How about KMA in Macy's window?

Where did you get the quarter billion from? Besides if the Pilot group had a single contract the "Synergies" promised would have materialized.

That would have positioned US to be involved in the UA/CO merger and who knows what else was never even mentioned due to Labor unrest.

Top Three? OR the Top Three as defined by the TFB's (Temoe Frat Boys) I was ALWAYS in the top three in sales at my office. Trouble was there were only three reps! 😀

Why? Because any open issue like labor strife could throw a monkey wrench into any merger

No! However every open issue makes a merger more challenging

Who cares about stock price? Stock Market is in many cases not indicative of the health of the company

You have to face facts. Doug Parker excels at one thing. Blindly following the spread sheet. It bit him with the DUI/DL event and now we shall see if it bites again

What you know about the airline biz would fill a thimble. Go back to whining about how your first class meal was cold, that is the extent of your knowledge. If you hadn't noticed, Parker has made profits for this airline, something the east doesn't understand, seeing as they never actually had a profit. They would do much better if they could throw out the east entitlement union slugs that work harder at not working and trying to kill the airline than if they actually did their damned jobs.

Oh, and bringing up DUI, just reeks of your pathetic inability to actually be a serious commentator. Same goes with your silly obsession with Kirby. How many times do you have to be proven wrong?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

To all of the F/A's. Please watch this clip. It's helpful to be reminded what a union is.



Who among you will be the Joe Kenehan or Sid Hatfield of the AFA? I took the liberty of modifying Joe Kenehan's speech from the clip and updated it from Coal Miner to F/A to show how little things have changed.



The clip is about real people and a real event. If you're serious about your career and your union it's a must watch. I have the pleasure of working with direct descendants of Joe Kenehan and Sid Hatfield and knew the composer of most of the music in the movie so it is a deeply personal account of an event that shows us just how far we haven't come.

Jesus Christ Norma Rae, how many times are you gonna flog that old video? You so desperately want to be some kind of hollywood version of a union activist. Tell you what, quit your job, get one at the airline and after 20 years of moving up, you can start to talk about what you know. Till then you are a sad wannabe.

 

[Phoenix]

What am I missing? I thought the pilots haven't had a contract deal since the AWA merger how many years ago?

Doug should be fired for incompetence on this issue alone.

The only contract that Doug will sign is one that takes from the FAs or Pilots.

For once in the history of the pilots they finally have a union that won't capitulate with more concessions.

It remains to be seen what the FAs are willing to give up, if anything. If they give up being scheduled with the pilots the result will be a 20% reduction in FAs and the ones lucky enough to stay (if you can call it that) will be working more days and hours per day to make up for the shortfall. (for example, pilots will fly CLT-SEA and then go to the hotel, but the FAs will fly back to CLT and then go back to their crash pad waiting for the same quick call trip tomorrow.)

 

[etops1]

The only contract that Doug will sign is one that takes from the FAs or Pilots.

For once in the history of the pilots they finally have a union that won't capitulate with more concessions.

It remains to be seen what the FAs are willing to give up, if anything. If they give up being scheduled with the pilots the result will be a 20% reduction in FAs and the ones lucky enough to stay (if you can call it that) will be working more days and hours per day to make up for the shortfall. (for example, pilots will fly CLT-SEA and then go to the hotel, but the FAs will fly back to CLT and then go back to their crash pad waiting for the same quick call trip tomorrow.)

So what ? Every other airline does it that way ..What makes us so different . If it were the other way around ,the pilots would have dropped the FA's so fast . Pilots do not do anything for me. Time to move on with out them. But there are more items in this contract that i am more worried about. Separating from the Pilots is the least of my concerns . <_<

 

[SparrowHawk]

So what ? Every other airline does it that way ..What makes us so different . If it were the other way around ,the pilots would have dropped the FA's so fast . Pilots do not do anything for me. Time to move on with out them. But there are more items in this contract that i am more worried about. Separating from the Pilots is the least of my concerns . <_<

The "Every other airline does it that way" sounds like a third grade answer to a complex issue.

I have always been of the mind that both the company and their unions have failed to grasp that US was and is still a bit different than other carriers. If I'm right then US and it's unions should act in each others best interest. WN, for years was much different and to this day certain aspects of their contracts are quite different. I don't know enough to comment specifically, I just know they exist and the real point is US Management and Labor should worry less about what DL, UA. AA have or don't have and figure out what works for them.

The problem with the above lies with US Management who never met a union employee they couldn't HATE! Unless and until this attitude changes, US Airways will be just another airline with mediocre performance by any metric chosen.

 

[Coach Cabin]

The only contract that Doug will sign is one that takes from the FAs or Pilots.

For once in the history of the pilots they finally have a union that won't capitulate with more concessions.

It remains to be seen what the FAs are willing to give up, if anything. If they give up being scheduled with the pilots the result will be a 20% reduction in FAs and the ones lucky enough to stay (if you can call it that) will be working more days and hours per day to make up for the shortfall. (for example, pilots will fly CLT-SEA and then go to the hotel, but the FAs will fly back to CLT and then go back to their crash pad waiting for the same quick call trip tomorrow.)

80 hours a month is 80 hours a month is 80 hours a month, whether you fly it in 10 days with 20 days off at home or in 20 days rotting in hotels. Please show your math as to how this will result in a 20% reduction in flight attendants.