US Airways & AFA Reach Tentative Agreement

[flybynite]

Well, our lowest paid f/a's do not make anywhere near that kind of money. What you don't realize is our reserves only get paid 73 hrs flight pay or minimum guarantee unless they can get their flight time over that amount. We do, in fact, have f/a's on food stamps. Starting flight time pay for new hires is only 20.51 as of the 1st of this year. And the f/a's on the west make even less.

The more senior f/a's flying the international routes make the most. I've heard they make around $65,000 a year. But they are getting the higher premium rates for flying those routes.

I'd say across the board on average...f/a's make somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 to 45,000 a year. Some less, some more. Depending on their situation at home. Maybe flying less to take care of an elderly parent or sick spouse, or flying more to pay for that car that just blew up.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Well, our lowest paid f/a's do not make anywhere near that kind of money. What you don't realize is our reserves only get paid 73 hrs flight pay or minimum guarantee unless they can get their flight time over that amount. We do, in fact, have f/a's on food stamps. Starting flight time pay for new hires is only 20.51 as of the 1st of this year. And the f/a's on the west make even less.

The more senior f/a's flying the international routes make the most. I've heard they make around $65,000 a year. But they are getting the higher premium rates for flying those routes.

I'd say across the board on average...f/a's make somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 to 45,000 a year. Some less, some more. Depending on their situation at home. Maybe flying less to take care of an elderly parent or sick spouse, or flying more to pay for that car that just blew up.

I don't disagree with anything you have stated. This all sounds like it is quite in line with what I put in my original post - The average full-time FA at TOS is working less an 40 hours per week and earring a salary that is very near or in some cases above the national average for household income.

For those new hires that are making an effective rate of say $10/hr and working 20 hours/week, I don't see how they could possibly pay their own way in the US if that is the singular source of income or if it represents the only effort they are putting in to pay for the basic necessities of life. If they aren't working a second job but are trying to live on their own (single household) then they would have to be masters of living on the cheap to avoid drawing from the generosity of others (via food stamps or any other means-tested federal or state assistance programs). If personal responsibiliy plays a part in their decision making, then they would get a second job or quit the FA job and find something that allows them to work more hours and earn a living wage income so as to not be dependent on others. Asking the Company to pay part-time FAs enough to earn to equal the total compensation as if they were FT is just not feasible. Part-time, entry level positions in America, in any industry, are not expected to be a sole income source for a household/family.

 

[Newsound]

Like I said before I have been with the company 4+ years and have yet to make 20k. Another point to make is that we only get paid our hourly rate from when the door closes (after boarding) till when the plane reaches the gate. So the whole boarding and deplaning process I am at best making my per diem. So for my 14hr duty day it is possible for me to only get paid for 5 hours of work. I'd like to know of another profession that doesn't pay you once you clock in. I would gladly take a hourly pay decrease if I were to get paid from clock in till I left the airport on my last flight of the day. That would never happen though since I would make more money.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Like I said before I have been with the company 4+ years and have yet to make 20k. Another point to make is that we only get paid our hourly rate from when the door closes (after boarding) till when the plane reaches the gate. So the whole boarding and deplaning process I am at best making my per diem. So for my 14hr duty day it is possible for me to only get paid for 5 hours of work. I'd like to know of another profession that doesn't pay you once you clock in. I would gladly take a hourly pay decrease if I were to get paid from clock in till I left the airport on my last flight of the day. That would never happen though since I would make more money.

We're you under the impression when you were signing your new hire paperwork 4+ years ago that as an FA that you would be paid something other than per diem when the AC door was open?

Given a choice between a regular FT (40 hour per week) job in another industry which paid an annual salary of $30k to start, would you switch or stay at US knowing you will most likely make $20k/year or less in 2012?

 

[flybynite]

I don't disagree with anything you have stated. This all sounds like it is quite in line with what I put in my original post - The average full-time FA at TOS is working less an 40 hours per week and earring a salary that is very near or in some cases above the national average for household income.

For those new hires that are making an effective rate of say $10/hr and working 20 hours/week, I don't see how they could possibly pay their own way in the US if that is the singular source of income or if it represents the only effort they are putting in to pay for the basic necessities of life. If they aren't working a second job but are trying to live on their own (single household) then they would have to be masters of living on the cheap to avoid drawing from the generosity of others (via food stamps or any other means-tested federal or state assistance programs). If personal responsibiliy plays a part in their decision making, then they would get a second job or quit the FA job and find something that allows them to work more hours and earn a living wage income so as to not be dependent on others. Asking the Company to pay part-time FAs enough to earn to equal the total compensation as if they were FT is just not feasible. Part-time, entry level positions in America, in any industry, are not expected to be a sole income source for a household/family.

That's the thing about being on reserve. They have to be on call 4 to 6 days a week (which makes them a full time employee) and it's almost impossible to get another part-time job flexible enough to work around.

Household expenses have sky rocketed and our pay has not come close to keeping up. It used to be a reserve could easily fly 85 to 110 hrs a month and could make a decent living. Now, the company doesn't want the reserves to fly over 73 hrs....they're lucky if they get to fly 30 hrs.... and it's killing them. What company do you know of that won't let someone work? The other airlines know this and pay their reserves far better. Hopefully, the T/A will have a nice raise for our junior employees.

 

[Newsound]

We're you under the impression when you were signing your new hire paperwork 4+ years ago that as an FA that you would be paid something other than per diem when the AC door was open?

Given a choice between a regular FT (40 hour per week) job in another industry which paid an annual salary of $30k to start, would you switch or stay at US knowing you will most likely make $20k/year or less in 2012?

Those are things I learned after being hired and well into training. I had another job offer at the time and refused it to work here. Would of been making 3x what I make now. I chose here because I knew I would get burnt out from the other job in 2-3 years. When I was hired I was told we were close to a new contract that would improve pay/benefits/lifestyle. I was also told I would be a line holder within 2 years.

When I was furloughed over a year ago I was very aggressive in looking for other work. Here in Phoenix the job market was and is still horrible. There were plenty of jobs that paid as well as my unemployment. I decided I would rather collect unemployment while I searched for better work. It had gotten to the point where I would have to relocate in order to land a decent paying job with somewhat of a future. To me a job is not all about the $$$. Will I enjoy my work? Will I enjoy the people i work with? Will i get burnt out in 2-3 years and wish for something else?

The reason(s) I stay (and don't think for a moment I question wth I am still doing here) I enjoy it here. I come to work with a smile on my face. The flexibility this job offers is like no other. I hold on thinking I want to be able to make a living doing something I enjoy. That is all I want. To make a decent living working here. If I could find a job I would enjoy equally with a bit better pay I would do it. I have not been able to land that gig.

You also state that this is a part time job. I have held other part time jobs while working here in the past. It is not easy to do. First I can't hold regular days off they change all the time. Just because I have a day off does not mean i have the energy to do a shift after a four day flip flopping minimum rest trip from heck. Trust me I have continuously looked for secondary sources of income with flexible scheduling. I would love to find a data entry job that i could do while stuck at home on call. This job as a reserve makes it very hard to hold a second job without working yourself silly. It can take 2 days to recover from a four day trip in which the hours of sleep you have gotten the past couple nights could fit into one hand. This job is not for everybody.

 

[SparrowHawk]

To all of the F/A's. Please watch this clip. It's helpful to be reminded what a union is.



Who among you will be the Joe Kenehan or Sid Hatfield of the AFA? I took the liberty of modifying Joe Kenehan's speech from the clip and updated it from Coal Miner to F/A to show how little things have changed.

You ain’t human to US Airways. You’re equipment, like a tug, beverage cart or jet way.... They use you til you burn out and then they get a new one……You think the other groups are your enemy? They are workers! Any union that would not support their efforts ain’t a union, it’s a club…They got you fighting pilot against pilot, ramper against mechanic, West against East. You all know there ain’t but two types of people, them that work and them that don’t. You work, Parker don’t. That’s all you got to know about the enemy. I know you all are brave workers. I know that you could duke it out with the company if you had to. US Airways don't want this union, the government don’t want it and the federal government doesn’t want to deal with you. All of them are just waiting for an excuse to come down and crush you to nothing! Fellas, we’re in a plane full of smoke and fumes here, the tiniest spark at the wrong time is gonna be the end of us…We got to work together, together til they can't get an aircraft off the ground without us cause we’re a union. We are the workers.

The clip is about real people and a real event. If you're serious about your career and your union it's a must watch. I have the pleasure of working with direct descendants of Joe Kenehan and Sid Hatfield and knew the composer of most of the music in the movie so it is a deeply personal account of an event that shows us just how far we haven't come.

 

[galley princess]

What I find more than a bit interesting is he we are at post #38 and we have a Customer and a retired Pilot defending Flight Attendants against the Union Bashing "Company Man" and his string of half truths, obfuscation and bald faced lies promoting his Animal Farm bleating "Unions Bad, Company Good" mantra. Where are the F/A's in all of this?

Years ago, "Lime Boy" tried his part time job bull spit argument with me and until I looked into it, I swallowed the excrement hook, line and sinker. Like the song by the Who, I won't be fooled again.

As far as this mostly former customer is concerned, Management has absolutely no credibility whatsoever when it comes to Employee and Customer. I'm happy the F/A's got something and I wish the other groups well in their endeavors. Keep in mind that with the AA Merger Activity ongoing it's very possible that US may need to get it's contract issues resolved in order to get financing to do a deal with AA.

What is interesting is that this thread is about a Tentative that may or may not address the abysmal working and pay conditions of US f/as.

Not the obvious "you should be grateful to have such a job" nonsense that Callaway Golf seems to want to discuss.

It's invariable. US cleans up by paying bankruptcy wages and just when we're about to see what kind of improvements (if any), someone wants to chime in with "the average person doesn't have. . ." nonsense to try to obfuscate a clear picture of what may be a mere mediocre raise and few improvements.

Crewmembers are special human beings that can function on little sleep, lousy nutrition and hostile oversight. All with a smile. All the things that humans value most, family, holidays, quality of life are not taken for granted when you are a crewmember, nor often achieved until very senior. That's a lot of missed birthdays, Christmases, and occasions gone by. Has the choice been made by said crewmember? Yes. That doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve or get compensation. Healthcare, transit companies, nuclear power plants etc all recognize that diversions from "normal" require compensation. Airlines, even LCC do not escape this.

To try to compare it to other occupations is a waste of time and irrelevant. The reality of this business is that it is highly unionized, due to the scewed views of management with accountant type views such as Calloway Golf's. Numbers are important, our salary number needs to increase substantially. Numbers, however are a function of industry standard and leverage. Right now, US f/as salaries are appallingly below industry standard. That needs to be rectified. Leverage originates in how one side can inconvenience the other. We will see how the union managed to convey the potential inconvenience of CHAOS and now, the lack of contracts and how they affect potential mergers on US management.

Finally, keep your eye on the ball. Read the TA closely, find the holes that are GOING to be there and decide how your quality of life will improve or not, and VOTE. Allowing oneself to be diverted by specious observations from an obviously ill informed non-player is unproductive.

 

[galley princess]

What I find more than a bit interesting is he we are at post #38 and we have a Customer and a retired Pilot defending Flight Attendants against the Union Bashing "Company Man" and his string of half truths, obfuscation and bald faced lies promoting his Animal Farm bleating "Unions Bad, Company Good" mantra. Where are the F/A's in all of this?

Years ago, "Lime Boy" tried his part time job bull spit argument with me and until I looked into it, I swallowed the excrement hook, line and sinker. Like the song by the Who, I won't be fooled again.

As far as this mostly former customer is concerned, Management has absolutely no credibility whatsoever when it comes to Employee and Customer. I'm happy the F/A's got something and I wish the other groups well in their endeavors. Keep in mind that with the AA Merger Activity ongoing it's very possible that US may need to get it's contract issues resolved in order to get financing to do a deal with AA.

What is interesting is that this thread is about a Tentative that may or may not address the abysmal working and pay conditions of US f/as.

Not the obvious "you should be grateful to have such a job" nonsense that Callaway Golf seems to want to discuss.

It's invariable. US cleans up by paying bankruptcy wages and just when we're about to see what kind of improvements (if any), someone wants to chime in with "the average person doesn't have. . ." nonsense to try to obfuscate a clear picture of what may be a mere mediocre raise and few improvements.

Crewmembers are special human beings that can function on little sleep, lousy nutrition and hostile oversight. All with a smile. All the things that humans value most, family, holidays, quality of life are not taken for granted when you are a crewmember, nor often achieved until very senior. That's a lot of missed birthdays, Christmases, and occasions gone by. Has the choice been made by said crewmember? Yes. That doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve or get compensation. Healthcare, transit companies, nuclear power plants etc all recognize that diversions from "normal" require compensation. Airlines, even LCC do not escape this.

To try to compare it to other occupations is a waste of time and irrelevant. The reality of this business is that it is highly unionized, due to the scewed views of management with accountant type views such as Calloway Golf's. Numbers are important, our salary number needs to increase substantially. Numbers, however are a function of industry standard and leverage. Right now, US f/as salaries are appallingly below industry standard. That needs to be rectified. Leverage originates in how one side can inconvenience the other. We will see how the union managed to convey the potential inconvenience of CHAOS and now, the lack of contracts and how they affect potential mergers on US management.

Finally, keep your eye on the ball. Read the TA closely, find the holes that are GOING to be there and decide how your quality of life will improve or not, and VOTE. Allowing oneself to be diverted by specious observations from an obviously ill informed non-player is unproductive.

 

[galley princess]

United Pay numbers for the T/A are : (domestic numbers)

current top out is 39.75
T/A offers 10% at DOS to a top out of 43.73
after that they are offering 3 yearly increases of 2%, 2.5% and 2.5%
for a top out at the end of 46.86.
if you do the numbers for international pay it comes out just over 50.00 per hour at the end.

If this information correct I am at a loss as to why they voted it in, knowing that Continental makes 53/hour? I don't know the specifics, I was under the impressions that they were already close to $50/hr. Apparently not.

At any rate, US f/as will require a significant raise from our current rate, not only because we're due for it, but also in compensation for the many things that we're losing.

Sigh. I wish that they'd release it already.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That seems to be correct except that there are two pay tables. One for what let's call base pay and the one you mention for pay time over 71 hours (I think it's 71). The base pay also increases over time (years of service) and has 3 or 4 anniversary of signing increases. I haven't run the math to see what the base pay equals per hour or what the combination would be for 80, 85, 90 hours when averaged to a single hourly rate. At least that's how I read it.

Jim

 

[SparrowHawk]

Allowing oneself to be diverted by specious observations from an obviously ill informed non-player is unproductive.

I do hope you're not referring to me?

I like your point about pushing back now that US is "In Play". If and that's a really big if there is to be a merger between US and AA you know full well that whatever is negotiated now will be shoved up AA's assets.

My business sense tells me now is an ideal time to be at the stage of negotiations that AFA is at. A tentative agreement reached, which IMO should be voted down. The bigger the margin, the better. Not because it's a bad deal, rather because US needs Labor peace to have a prayer of making the AA deal fly, which means there is more money on the table for a better contract.

 

[diamondcutter]

Well said hope all f/a s. don't just look at the per hr amount . Look for what they take away to get to that amount!!!

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

US Airways Flight Attendant Deal Could Help Merger Effort


Never before at US Airways have flight attendants made a contract deal ahead of the pilots


What am I missing? I thought the pilots haven't had a contract deal since the AWA merger how many years ago?

Doug should be fired for incompetence on this issue alone.

 

[flybynite]

That seems to be correct except that there are two pay tables. One for what let's call base pay and the one you mention for pay time over 71 hours (I think it's 71). The base pay also increases over time (years of service) and has 3 or 4 anniversary of signing increases. I haven't run the math to see what the base pay equals per hour or what the combination would be for 80, 85, 90 hours when averaged to a single hourly rate. At least that's how I read it.

Jim

It's 73 min hr guarantee for reserves. It went up from 71 back in 2006. And yes, there have been some small increases in hourly rates each year since. We just got a 3% increase at the first of January.