US/AA merger settlement imminent!

[700UW]

There merger was approved, WT isnt happy
 

 
Because Airlines help each other out without seeking a gain out of it.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

UA Is getting something out of it… they get to consolidate their ops too, in Term C.
 
As far as Delta, they already operate the most gates out of the best terminals at LGA, I'm not sure what else they could possibly need.
 
-astra

 

[WorldTraveler]

I never said the merger shouldn't be approved. I said it is a bad idea but that ship has apparently long since sailed.

Just a reminder that the divestiture process is not complete.

Celebrate Thanksgiving and we can argue what happens next on the other side - unless of course if you want to do it now.

And you have already had way too much turkey if you think that UA is going to move gates at LGA without getting something out of it.
US' operations won't fit in the CTB unless someone moves out.
 

As far as Delta, they already operate the most gates out of the best terminals at LGA
-astra

true dat...

and DL controls gates in every LGA terminal except the CTB which puts DL at the negotiating table... for whatever DL can get out of it...

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

There merger was approved, WT isnt happy
 
 
 
Because Airlines help each other out without seeking a gain out of it.

 
WT clearly wants to boot the other airlines out so that DL can have Term C to itself, but I honestly can't picture a plausible scenario where that happens, unless DL gets the LGA slot divestitures, which is silly

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL has an operation at the MAT that could easily fit in C if US moved out and if DL decides to consolidate its operations at C/D... but someone has to move out of the CTB for US to move in.

My bet is that UA moves over to C and/or B6 or WN moves to the MAT.

That is just LGA.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

true dat...

and DL controls gates in every LGA terminal except the CTB which puts DL at the negotiating table... for whatever DL can get out of it...

 
Although I said "best terminals at LGA" let's keep in mind… that is really not saying all that much. This is LGA, after all.
Try taking a flight departing out of "gate 2" in terminal D and then tell me how great DL's facilities at LGA are.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

DL has an operation at the MAT that could easily fit in C if US moved out and if DL decides to consolidate its operations at C/D... but someone has to move out of the CTB for US to move in.

My bet is that UA moves over to C and/or B6 or WN moves to the MAT.

That is just LGA.

 
B6 only has 2 gates, they are too small for the MAT unless WN or someone moves with them

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am aware that LGA as a whole is nothing to write home about... let alone take pictures with the IPhone.

But LGA is LGA and it is the preferred close-in airport for the world's largest travel market. DL sits well given that situation.

I think there will be a couple terminal moves at LGA and other cities in order to allow AA and US to consolidate oeprations... DL just might get some of what it wants in return....

BTW, if the AA/US fanclub is happy about the merger, by no means let me rain on the parade.

I don't stand up at weddings and object to the union there either.

 

[AANOTOK]

I am aware that LGA as a whole is nothing to write home about... let alone take pictures with the IPhone.

But LGA is LGA and it is the preferred close-in airport for the world's largest travel market. DL sits well given that situation.

I think there will be a couple terminal moves at LGA and other cities in order to allow AA and US to consolidate oeprations... DL just might get some of what it wants in return....

BTW, if the AA/US fanclub is happy about the merger, by no means let me rain on the parade.

I don't stand up at weddings and object to the union there either.

Not a fan club, WT...just employees of an employer wanting to get on with life and hope
things move forward with more positives than negatives...

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

There continue to be indications that that the 717 is coming to BOS to be used on the DL Shuttle and part of the reason to do so would be to allow connections off of the three legs of the Shuttle - LGA to BOS, DCA, and ORD - using the other 200+ flights DL has at LGA. that could only work if the Shuttle and the rest of DL's LGA operation is connected and there is no way to make connections between the MAT and the other 2 DL terminals w/o clearing security and taking a Port Authority bus. DL doesn't allow connections to/from the Shuttle while US allowed it for years when they had a larger LGA operation.

 
Had you attended the Seattle Delta Velvet360 event with Richard Anderson this month, you'd know that the 717 shuttle rumor is false and Shuttle America will continue to operate all shuttle flights.
 
The competition should be interesting to watch, considering the future "American Shuttle" will be using mainline ac

 

[WorldTraveler]

No executive can reveal publicly material information to employees before it is also revealed to investors.  Whether an aircraft change is material or not is up to the lawyers to say but I would hardly count on a denial at an employee meeting as evidence one way or another.
 
It also doesn't change that AA and US fans and media have said since the beginning of the merger announcement that they would dominate, be #1 in X city or region etc.... with no consideration of the fact that other airlines absolutely will initiate strategies that are intended to minimize the advantage AA/US get from its merger.  Competition is what businesses do. 
 
And if DL doesn't move the Shuttle at LGA, it makes it a whole lot harder for AA/US to solve its separated operations. 
 
Again, DL thought about moving out of the MAT when the slot swap was done and decided not to do it for very good strategic reasons which will come into play in the next few months.

Methinks that regardless of what happens to the Shuttle, the Palace that Leo built in BOS is about ready to see a whole lot more activity than it has seen in perhaps ever.

You and a whole lot of people fail to grasp that DL has just finished the largest competitive incursion into other carrier's top markets with its LGA expansion. The LGA expansion is performing solidly and DL now has enormous bandwidth to move into other key markets around the country. DL has no major competitive threats to its system, unlike UA on the west coast and AA with DAL and Latin America. DL is also far more profitable than either and has a settled merger and cooperative workforce.

If you think for a minute that DL is not going to aggressively grow its presence in key industry markets, esp. AA's, at the very time that AA is battling a dozen major initiatives including a merger which could be highly problematic for labor and finances, then you are in for a big surprise.

How the Shuttle and BOS plays into it all remains to be seen but I can absolutely assure you that DL will take advantage of every opportunity to expand its business while AA/US figure out how to put theirs together in the midst of a number of major competitive changes to the industry that are targeted directly at AA>

 

[Force Majeure]

I would hardly count on a denial at an employee meeting as evidence one way or another.

So you work for delta and you are saying the information put out at employee meetings is not truthful? Even when that informant came from the CEO?

That is quite revealing.

 

[WorldTraveler]

No I do not work for DL but I do understand that there are laws that prohibit material information from being revealed to employees before it is revealed to investors.
An equipment change on a key route may or may not be considered material.

But it still doesn't change that just because Anderson or any other exec said no at a meeting this month doesn't mean it won't or can't happen down the road. Anderson is a lawyer and isn't known for leaking competitive information at employee meetings. In fact, according to some pilot forums, they are getting less competitive information - even in general, non-specific terms - than they used to get specifically because execs were tired of reading a summary of what was said in private meetings with employees on public web sites.

Specific ot the Shuttle, it is a dying business model because of the train. DL has compounded the problem by using a separate terminal that does not allow connections to/from the rest of the LGA operation. Ridership on both shuttles is decreasing and is close to the point of either having to end the Shuttle or treat it like other flights which allow connections, even if it will take away some of the appeal of the product to premium passengers.

And lest you think that AA will be better off, the AA network has very few destinations north of LGA from LGA. AA/US faces the same challenge of putting the Shuttle in a location where getting to it is not a turnoff to the premium passengers that US also needs.
My bet is that AA/US will consolidate the Shuttle into the CTB which will be a much more chaotic environment and at the same time DL will move its Shuttle to its main terminals and out of the MAT.

I could be wrong and this isn't one of those things I would bet on but there are more than enough signs to indicate that both the DL and AA/US Shuttles are in for some changes. If both make the changes about the same time, the competitive losses for both are minimized.

Remember that DL treats the LGA-ORD operation as part of the Shuttle which means it operates completely on point to point traffic. I don't know whether the make money or not but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that AA and UA both have an advantage by having a hub at one end (ORD) that DL doesn't have.


And again regardless of what happens with the Shuttle, DL is still going to look for opportunities to grow, esp. in disputed market cities such as BOS and LAX where there is no dominant network carrier. DL has plenty of resources to shift its focus from LGA and JFK to other cities which is precisely why they are focusing on the west and can still easily have a few other key strategic initiaitives and be engaged in fewer competitive battles than they were right after the slot swap.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

No I do not work for DL but I do understand that there are laws that prohibit material information from being revealed to employees before it is revealed to investors.
An equipment change on a key route may or may not be considered material.

But it still doesn't change that just because Anderson or any other exec said no at a meeting this month doesn't mean it won't or can't happen down the road. Anderson is a lawyer and isn't known for leaking competitive information at employee meetings. In fact, according to some pilot forums, they are getting less competitive information - even in general, non-specific terms - than they used to get specifically because execs were tired of reading a summary of what was said in private meetings with employees on public web sites.

 
I don't know who said it, I wasn't there either. But my partner heard it said there and as a DL employee he is been right more than he has been wrong about these things.
 

Remember that DL treats the LGA-ORD operation as part of the Shuttle which means it operates completely on point to point traffic. I don't know whether the make money or not but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that AA and UA both have an advantage by having a hub at one end (ORD) that DL doesn't have.

 
Which is why when I commuted, I loved those flights-- always plenty of open seats, even in the summer. I'd even get first class most times (not that FC on S5 is anything to get excited about). I could never score a standby seat on UA or AA; I would be laughed off the counter
 
Something tells me DL would love to bring the ORD flights back to the main terminals.

 

[FWAAA]

Because of the improved train product, the DCA-LGA shuttle just doesn't have the O&D to justify 16 daily flights.   Between DCA and BOS, on the other hand, flying is still faster than the train.   Problem is, B6 is competing for that business, and with lower costs, can attract a significant share.   LGA-BOS is a little better than DCA-LGA, but lack of connections will make it tough to keep 16 daily frequencies.