Update On A/c 700
- Thread starter misren
- Start date
The above post is 100% accurate...Acft 700UW is down for extended troubleshooting , ranging back to it's origional defects since it's return from ST Mobile Aerospace in Alabama.
How sweet is this deal looking now Dave and Jerry ?????
Maybe Chip can regale us with another round of the benefits of outsourcing again too ?? :unsure:
I wonder how his ALPA buddies doing the flying and the zero flap and emergency landings feel about this too ???? ...keep in mind , the flight crews are the ones seeing the problems and doing the logbook entries....this is not a case of the evil unionized employee's trying to get even for being wronged.
Lets hope between the courts sound judgement....or a change of thinking in CCY , that we will have no further issues of this type......or the profits will continue to dwindle away along with the entire company.
How sweet is this deal looking now Dave and Jerry ?????
Maybe Chip can regale us with another round of the benefits of outsourcing again too ?? :unsure:
I wonder how his ALPA buddies doing the flying and the zero flap and emergency landings feel about this too ???? ...keep in mind , the flight crews are the ones seeing the problems and doing the logbook entries....this is not a case of the evil unionized employee's trying to get even for being wronged.
Lets hope between the courts sound judgement....or a change of thinking in CCY , that we will have no further issues of this type......or the profits will continue to dwindle away along with the entire company.
- Banned
- #5
US Flyer,
A/C 700 had no flap problems before it went to Singapore Technologies Mobile Aerospace, no emergency landing, no hydraulic system loss.
Kinda of funny how right after it leaves BFM it has all kinds of problems.
You pay for what you get for, when those employees only care about getting it out fast so STMAE does not have to pay a financial penalty back to US Airways.
Never seen one of our airplanes come out of overhaul with so many problems and emergency landings.
A/C 700 had no flap problems before it went to Singapore Technologies Mobile Aerospace, no emergency landing, no hydraulic system loss.
Kinda of funny how right after it leaves BFM it has all kinds of problems.
You pay for what you get for, when those employees only care about getting it out fast so STMAE does not have to pay a financial penalty back to US Airways.
Never seen one of our airplanes come out of overhaul with so many problems and emergency landings.
Light Years
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- Aug 27, 2002
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Man, its like Lennon said "Instant Karmas gonna get you!"
robbedagain
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- Oct 13, 2003
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when an aircraft makes a no-flaps landing, does that mean the landing is going to be a very rough or hard landing? Also can a plane be severely damaged by this type of landing?
Flying Titan
Veteran
- Oct 14, 2003
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This is really disturbing. I would hope that CCY gets all of its money back for the work done on this a/c. As I've stated before on this board, as a passenger, I feel better with the work being done in-house. Still, other airlines have managed to achieve safe operations without doing their overhauls in-house -- most notably Southwest.
In this case, something very wrong has happened. I don't know if it's the company they chose, U's oversight (or lack thereof), the terms of the contract (e.g. not enough time to do the work), or some other factor. Whatever the reason, this does not reflect well on U. If this becomes widely known, people will start booking away from U for safety reasons. If that happens, no amount of marketing or PR will ever be successful in getting those customers back.
It's time for CCY to come up with a much better solution. It's also time for the in-house IAM mechs to get this aircraft straight. I recognize that U employees didn't create this mess, but it's time for U employees to step up and make it right. In a previous thread, someone told me there was no reason for concern because the repairs were going to be done right before another pax would be on that plane. Well, that doesn't seem to be the case yet, either -- and I'm concerned.
In this case, something very wrong has happened. I don't know if it's the company they chose, U's oversight (or lack thereof), the terms of the contract (e.g. not enough time to do the work), or some other factor. Whatever the reason, this does not reflect well on U. If this becomes widely known, people will start booking away from U for safety reasons. If that happens, no amount of marketing or PR will ever be successful in getting those customers back.
It's time for CCY to come up with a much better solution. It's also time for the in-house IAM mechs to get this aircraft straight. I recognize that U employees didn't create this mess, but it's time for U employees to step up and make it right. In a previous thread, someone told me there was no reason for concern because the repairs were going to be done right before another pax would be on that plane. Well, that doesn't seem to be the case yet, either -- and I'm concerned.
No, this does not result in a hard landing or aircraft damage. A no flap and/or no slat landing gives the pilot an "unusual" deck angle or an approach picture they are not use to. The other siginificant factor is a much higher approach and landing speed which requires a longer runway due to greater stopping distances. If the runway is wet (or slushy/icy) this could prevent you from landing at these fields. If you couple this problem with other problems, ie.. anti-lock braking system failure, then it would really jeapordize the aircrafts ability to stop on the remaining runway after touchdown. It's not a normal occurance that flaps and/or slats fail to deploy and these maintenance practices (outsourcing) should be stopped immediately!robbedagain said:
T
Traveler
Guest
This type of abnormal approach and landing mostly involves extra cockpit procedures, non-normal precautionary routines trained and prepared for in biannual Pilot / and Annual Flight Attendant examinations and training. You might notice an extended final approach landing profile allowing for a more stabilized approach. The Pilots will deactivate the on-board flight automation computers from affecting aircraft approach and landing. This is one of those scenarios where you “break the glass in case of emergencyâ€. An experienced and well trained crew – it’s part of the price of you ticket.
For the Passenger, the landing is most likely a non event. If not for Passenger briefings by the flight deck and cabin crew, as routine precautionary measures to enhance safety and the potential necessity for coordinated evacuation of the aircraft – the infrequent flyer would probably not be at all aware of a difference in the approach and touchdown.
The short answer to your question is, the landing should be just as uneventful as some of the normal landings you’ve experienced.
For the Pilot’s however, there are numerous applied procedures and checklist items which are exceptional to a normal approach and landing. For them the hand-flown approach is conducted according to a precise profile meeting exacting performance criteria for a safe touchdown. It’s a very high energy low aerodynamic drag approach and landing. To be on parameters, the aircraft must be stabilized and hand-flown through a series of imaginary performance windows with thrust reductions earlier than normal, not much unlike a Space Shuttle high energy approach and landing.
Again, for the passenger, no hard landings or unusual disruption to a perceived comfortable two dimensional world your USAirways flight and ground crews always strive to deliver.
T
Traveler
Guest
sorry Schwanker,
I made a reply off line before I saw you already answered the question. Dind't mean to jumb between.
I made a reply off line before I saw you already answered the question. Dind't mean to jumb between.
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
Thank you for the replies. I was just curious because I have heard before that,
especially like the World War 2 aircraft could have a rough landing. Thanks again
and I sure do agree that the 3rd party has to stop.
especially like the World War 2 aircraft could have a rough landing. Thanks again
and I sure do agree that the 3rd party has to stop.
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
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May be a little redundant, but every pilot on the A320 at U had to be trained and demonstrate the no-flap for their certification in the simulator. It is a required maneuver and one given much emphasis during the training process.
A320 Driver
A320 Driver
FLYING TITAN,
I appreciate your concern over the 3rd party maintenance issue. Be rest assured
that aircraft have many system redundancies built in to help ensure safety.
This however, in no way implies justification of our mis-management's abominable
actions that are solely responsible for creating this debacle. :angry:
The aircraft will eventually be corrected once the discrepancies have been
identified and ample time to implement corrective measures is granted.
This is a labor intensive process primarily due to the complex systems-interface
involved and the fact that you simply do not know just what exactly was done at Mobile Aerospace.
It makes for difficult troubleshooting when many system components have been
replaced that require rigging into manufacturers specifications. If one flap
actuator is not properly adjusted after installation then you can expect problems
in another flap actuator, sensor or system such as the Autopilot.
And most often the discrepancy only occurs in flight.....it will not duplicate on the ground. So it becomes rather difficult to fix that which is not broken.
A/C 700 is the resultant effect of our mis-management and their refusal to
honor our contract in regards to farmout of our work. If CEO-Dave was as serious about running a good company as he is with slashing costs without regard for the outcome, this would never have happened. Yet Dave continues to persue an appeal of the preliminary injunction that was correctly administered by the court while he proceedes to park more A319/320's that run out of time due to scheduled maintenance........All that lost revenue........Very cost effective indeed <_< .
:down: Dave-SADDAM-LORENZO :down: will never learn inspite of all that has transpired with Mobile Aerospace and A/C 700. It's truly a crying shame to the employees that ultimately will suffer from such ineptitude
I appreciate your concern over the 3rd party maintenance issue. Be rest assured
that aircraft have many system redundancies built in to help ensure safety.
This however, in no way implies justification of our mis-management's abominable
actions that are solely responsible for creating this debacle. :angry:
The aircraft will eventually be corrected once the discrepancies have been
identified and ample time to implement corrective measures is granted.
This is a labor intensive process primarily due to the complex systems-interface
involved and the fact that you simply do not know just what exactly was done at Mobile Aerospace.
It makes for difficult troubleshooting when many system components have been
replaced that require rigging into manufacturers specifications. If one flap
actuator is not properly adjusted after installation then you can expect problems
in another flap actuator, sensor or system such as the Autopilot.
And most often the discrepancy only occurs in flight.....it will not duplicate on the ground. So it becomes rather difficult to fix that which is not broken.
A/C 700 is the resultant effect of our mis-management and their refusal to
honor our contract in regards to farmout of our work. If CEO-Dave was as serious about running a good company as he is with slashing costs without regard for the outcome, this would never have happened. Yet Dave continues to persue an appeal of the preliminary injunction that was correctly administered by the court while he proceedes to park more A319/320's that run out of time due to scheduled maintenance........All that lost revenue........Very cost effective indeed <_< .
:down: Dave-SADDAM-LORENZO :down: will never learn inspite of all that has transpired with Mobile Aerospace and A/C 700. It's truly a crying shame to the employees that ultimately will suffer from such ineptitude
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
Does the airbus require special training for a no flaps landing compared to the boeing? what is the difference between the two when it comes to that?
