Ual Mechs Vote No, Authorize Strike
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ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
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Just trying to mitigate the damage, that's all.
JAMAKE1
Veteran
I find this latest turn of events very compelling. As much as I personally love United, I find myself excited about the AMFA vote. The fact of the matter is that labor paid a price a long time ago in the form of B-scale. I came to to the property in the mid-90's and worked for five years at a salary in the $18000-$22,000 a year range under the guise that I would eventually make a livable wage once I merged to A-scale. Other work groups at UAL also worked at B-scale wages only to have their A-scale wages elude them in the form of ESOP. (Thankfully, my work group opted to not participate in ESOP). Then bankruptcy occurred and those same work groups saw their "investment" disolve to nothing. Then in 2003 all work groups conceeded a collective $2 billion to help UAL emerge from bankruptcy. Fast-forward to year 2005 and again work groups are being asked to cough up another $725 million in givebacks as well as allow the company rights to unlimited outsourcing in certain work groups (i.e. voting away their own jobs). During this same time period (about a decade) a man such as Steven Wolf walks away from two airlines with millions lining his pockets. ($120 million more if the UA-US merger had succeeded). There is a disconnect somewhere in this picture. With UAL still badly hemmoraging money, there will be no end in sight to even further concessions down the road. UAL has been plagued with systemic problems and ineffeciencies for a very long time. It is no wonder that AMFA has drawn a line in the sand. Sadly, United may indeed, have to go out business in order to stem the further errosion of the airline workers' profession
If only we could...your points and facts are valid....only the reality is flawed. No contract is valid under BK since everything is subject to modification at the whim of the company. Once the pension is settled, how long before they are back? Has anything changed to stem the red ink? The concession wasn't rejected, the business plan was. And so was the leadership. I have very few answers for a solution, but I am tired of this path. Today I stand and today I will fight even if I know....I cannot win.ual747mech said:
ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
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If you know you're fighting a losing battle then I respect your decision. You're not the only one who's tired of this path, I don't like it either but I just don't want to give management the ammunition to destroy our contract than they already do. I know some people who don't know the consequences of the cba being rejected. Some people think they will go back and negotiate a better deal. Hell, a lot of people didn't even vote, somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 members.
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
Veteran
- Oct 9, 2003
- 1,401
- 2
It's better to go down fighting than be a slave for the rest of your life! UAL mechanics have redeemed themselves by voting NO to more concessions. I wish the same could be said for us mechanics here at AA and those at USAIR.
ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
- 279
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If I know I'm fighting a losing battle then I would rather regroup and live to fight another day. Why commit suicide....
usairways_vote_NO
Veteran
- Sep 9, 2002
- 1,882
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ual747mech said:
If everyone in this world gave up fighting a losing battle where would we be today? A losing battle isn't a lost war let alone a lost battle. I know a lot of people including you who think they know the consequences of voting no but in reality are being scared into voting for something that isn't in their best interests. Some think they have no leverage when in fact you have the company over a barrel just as much as you think they have you. That is if the company indeed intends to survive. Some things are never what they seem on the surface or what others would have you believe.
usairways_vote_NO
Veteran
- Sep 9, 2002
- 1,882
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ual747mech said:
You mean to live to cower to the bully again?
Many generals and many men have found themselves not always on the best ground or in a battle of their choosing. A man who will only fight when he can win is only a coward or bully at best. If the company said the only concession we ask is for YOU to leave....is it only then you would fight? Then why do you feel that the continued retreat and forfeiture of other members jobs, our work, wages, etc is to your benefit? How can you continue to subsidize those that continue to harass, intimidate, and eventually TAKE your job and keep theirs? Perhaps you are of a stature that you feel none of this will ever get to you and hence, f*ck everyone else. One third of this country NEVER supported independence from England. One third was adament about independence and the other third swayed to who ever was winning at the moment....Which third are you???
ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
- 279
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Every battle wasn't won on bravery alone, you need strategic plan to go with it. I'm all for independence so we can do whatever we want to but to call somebody a coward that's disrespectful. If bravery to you is fighting something you know you can't win then so be it. Even great generals plan their battles carefully and nobody called them a coward. But don't worry my friend you shall soon see whether you made the right decision or not.
Not calling you a coward or that your viewpoint is even wrong, in fact you are very versed in our situation, which is better than most. But this picture may be bigger than you or I or even United. I am not un-bending or pig headed in this rational with the company. I simply have no belief or faith in them and I am not going to sacrifice more people or my trade even if it means losing it myself. I am not carrying a banner or agenda...I voted no because I do not believe in their business plan nor do I believe they will stop coming back again and again. I'm not a very big "union" guy or anything else...if my friends walk, then I walk with them and away from what I have known for 20 yrs. It's the price I pay for being the man I believe I am.ual747mech said:
DCT JVL
Advanced
- Oct 7, 2002
- 115
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So Ronin, you think that AMFA and all their "integrity" is going to take down UAL so that the other airlines will quake in their boots and never deign to confront the mighty unions again? I seem to remember Charlie Bryan saying the same things 13 years ago. It sure doesn't look like that had any effect, since management is back at our door.
If you think that AA, NW, DL and all the rest aren't coming after union contracts even after UAL craters, you are delusional. Say what you will about how we got here, the situation is larger than you or your intergity. This is about the basic economics of the new airline industry and a new global economy. You walking out isn't going to change that. You think UAL going away is going to stem the tide of horrendous losses across the industry? It won't, and management will keep coming for your money, and in the end, you will still be competing against some guy in Singapore who has a better education than you and costs a third as much.
That's why walking out won't do anything except lose everybody at UAL their jobs.
For a guy who was annoyed that ALPA elected to negotiate for you, I find it interesting that you are willing to sacrifice everybody's job for your "integrity".
It is funny that you use the "Ronin" moniker because this whole mess reminds me of the last scene in the movie the "The Last Samurai". The Samurai, in a fit of honor and integrity charge the new Imperial Japanese Army and their machine guns. Of course, they are slaughtered. They sure were honorable, but it didn't make them any less dead.
I'm all for an organized retreat. Then we can adapt to the new world and live to fight another day.
If you think that AA, NW, DL and all the rest aren't coming after union contracts even after UAL craters, you are delusional. Say what you will about how we got here, the situation is larger than you or your intergity. This is about the basic economics of the new airline industry and a new global economy. You walking out isn't going to change that. You think UAL going away is going to stem the tide of horrendous losses across the industry? It won't, and management will keep coming for your money, and in the end, you will still be competing against some guy in Singapore who has a better education than you and costs a third as much.
That's why walking out won't do anything except lose everybody at UAL their jobs.
For a guy who was annoyed that ALPA elected to negotiate for you, I find it interesting that you are willing to sacrifice everybody's job for your "integrity".
It is funny that you use the "Ronin" moniker because this whole mess reminds me of the last scene in the movie the "The Last Samurai". The Samurai, in a fit of honor and integrity charge the new Imperial Japanese Army and their machine guns. Of course, they are slaughtered. They sure were honorable, but it didn't make them any less dead.
I'm all for an organized retreat. Then we can adapt to the new world and live to fight another day.
