Ual Mec Endorses Tentative Agreement

[goingboeing]

No point in arguing, it is what it is. The UAL pilots have no choice, unless 7 is your lucky number. Just vote yes and hope to fight another day.

[post="229950"][/post]​

Live to fight another day! The airline employees are not even fighting now so what in in hell makes you think we will fight another day?

This is one of the most _ _ _ _ _ _ statements I've seen in a long time.

 

[Dizel8]

Not sure what :" _ _ _ _ _ _" is, but figure not good.

What is the choices facing the UAL pilots? As we have seen from U it is either agreed to or imposed.

Sure we will see the chest thumping, but in the end, considering what is going on, this T/A will pass just fine.

 

[ualdriver]

I love it. Certain members of certain employee groups are screaming "it's not fair." It was fair when ALPA was 25% of the payroll yet gave up 44% of the first round of concessions though, wasn't it? I didn't hear any IAM, AFA, or AMFA members proclaiming that it was unfair that ALPA give up more than its fair share the first time around. But when we get some small bones thrown our way (and they are very small bones compared to how much older ALPA members are going to lose in the long run and the total concessions given), some members of these groups is up in arms. Typical.

And ALPA is absolutely not insisting that other groups get their pensions cancelled. That is absolutely moronic. All that clause says is that if the other employee groups get pensions, then so do we. We're the first out of the gates with this tentative, we're protecting ourselves, and I feel that clause is perfectly fair. There's another clause (I think) in there that says if another employee group gives up less than their fair share, then so does ALPA. Ditto with stock allocation if it was explained to me correctly. Oh my God! How unfair of ALPA to want to give no more nor no less than any other employee group!

I agree this thing will pass, especially with some extras thrown in there like no longer being able to move our days off and the convertible bond and the stock. If this thing is voted down, I imagine we will lose those "extras" and get stuck with the original piece of junk vs. this slightly lesser piece of junk. I suspect the other employee groups will be given a few "extras" as a small carrot for a passage on their part. We'll see I guess.

 

[767jetz]

What they want is to get as much out for themselves before the other employees have a chance to get a piece of the pie. This agreement will probably foster much ill will around the campus.

[post="229958"][/post]​

Unbelievable! No one stopped you from being the first with a T/A. Since when does ALPA dictate the negotiating schedule for anyone else? If you really believe this, then why didn't your group beat ALPA to the punch and come out with an agreement first? Then you could have gotten a bigger piece and left us with less.

Amazing how misinformed some people can be. Each group has a target that must be reached, either consensually or by imposition. How you get to that point is up to each of you. This isn't a race to get tha biggest piece of the pie, as you so eloquently put it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You're just a bit optimistic, ualdriver. The PBGC says it is owed $800 million in pension payments to date. Not sure if that number is true but you can be sure that the PBGC will insist on full payment of all payments due until the pensions are terminated. $800 M is enough to prevent UAL from emerging from bankruptcy.

 

[Bizman]

Let's hope.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

This deal will not pass muster with the creditors, most of all the PBGC.

Again, I remind you the PBGC took LTV Steel all the way to the Supreme Court, a case that lasted seven years, and the PBGC ultimately prevailed.

Does UA have that much time?

Sure, the spin meisters will work this story hard. And they'll all be wrong.

Your problem is revenue. UA & the ALPA are fighting over pieces of a pie that they don't even have the ingredients to bake.

 

[aafsc]

What they want is to get as much out for themselves before the other employees have a chance to get a piece of the pie. This agreement will probably foster much ill will around the campus.

The pension agency also said it was concerned that the pilots union insisted on the termination of the pension plans for other United employees.

[post="229958"][/post]​

This is why they settled first. It seems to me that the new C fund, the $550 million interest bearing (semiannual) convertable bonds, and the stock will make up for the loss of their "A" fund (defined benefit plan). Do you really think that they would just let that huge "A" fund just disappear? Also they still have their 9% "B" fund. How will this be paid for? Poverty level pay and outsourcing for non-pilot employees. The pilots' strategy is to ally themselves with management in decimating the non-pilot salaries in order to fund this agreement. Remember that Duane Worthe (ALPA national's president) sat right next to Robert Crandall in front of a congressional commitee extolling the virtues of maintanence outsourcing. Also I remember reading somewhere on these boards that a UA pilot said that UA could outsource ramp; wishful thinking on his part. I know I am going to get criticized by pilots for this and yes pilots have every right to negotiate what they can get BUT the other employees have JUST AS MUCH OF A RIGHT to negotiate a fair and equitable agreement which provides an average lifestyle and $20,000 a year with a 2% 401k match after 20 years at UAL on the ramp in SFO, LGA, or ORD is definately not an average lifestyle; it is called the "working poor".

 

[MCI transplant]

This is why they settled first. It seems to me that the new C fund, the $550 million interest bearing (semiannual) convertable bonds, and the stock will make up for the loss of their "A" fund (defined benefit plan). Do you really think that they would just let that huge "A" fund just disappear? Also they still have their 9% "B" fund. How will this be paid for? Poverty level pay and outsourcing for non-pilot employees. The pilots' strategy is to ally themselves with management in decimating the non-pilot salaries in order to fund this agreement. Remember that Duane Worthe (ALPA national's president) sat right next to Robert Crandall in front of a congressional commitee extolling the virtues of maintanence outsourcing. Also I remember reading somewhere on these boards that a UA pilot said that UA could outsource ramp; wishful thinking on his part. I know I am going to get criticized by pilots for this and yes pilots have every right to negotiate what they can get BUT the other employees have JUST AS MUCH OF A RIGHT to negotiate a fair and equitable agreement which provides an average lifestyle and $20,000 a year with a 2% 401k match after 20 years at UAL on the ramp in SFO, LGA, or ORD is definately not an average lifestyle; it is called the "working poor".

[post="230208"][/post]​

<_< aafsc------ Hey man! You have way too much time on your hands!!! Why don't you get back to the a.a. page, and we'll play some more after the holidays!!!! Your friend: "Just anotherone of a.a.'s red headed stepchildren!"

 

[aafsc]

<_< aafsc------ Hey man! You have way too much time on your hands!!! Why don't you get back to the a.a. page, and we'll play some more after the holidays!!!! Your friend: "Just anotherone of a.a.'s red headed stepchildren!"

[post="230408"][/post]​

Looking forward to it! Happy Holidays!