I would be surprised if the apha deal is legal. The part with the convertable notes and bonds sounds like a creation of debt. At this time while Ua is in bk, I don't think they can create a debt instrument without the ok from creditors. The pbgc may be a creditor and may have a big beef with this type of note.
Alpa Tentative Agreement Summary
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Amazing how little some people know about negotiated agreements. :down:
UAL has petitioned the court to terminate the pensions.
Pilots (ALPA) have agreed to the termination of theirs, but only if all others are terminated. A first year law student could certainly see why that provision is in there.
If the provision wasn't in there, the ALPA would have a monster of a malpractice case against their lawyers.
Certainly makes sense to me.
Does anyone really expect the pilots to AGREE to terminate their plan if there was a chance that the company would agree to retain some other groups' pensions?
It's unlikely to occur (company agreeing with pilots to terminate their plan but agreeing with another group to keep their plan), but the pilots wanted to make their concession agreement contingent on the same pain being shared by all: namely, the termination of their DB pension.
What's so evil about that?
Bear96 seems to understand. I tend to agree with uafa21: I'm not sure the convertible debt is kosher, but we'll see if the creditors complain (or prevail).
UAL has petitioned the court to terminate the pensions.
Pilots (ALPA) have agreed to the termination of theirs, but only if all others are terminated. A first year law student could certainly see why that provision is in there.
If the provision wasn't in there, the ALPA would have a monster of a malpractice case against their lawyers.
Certainly makes sense to me.
Does anyone really expect the pilots to AGREE to terminate their plan if there was a chance that the company would agree to retain some other groups' pensions?
It's unlikely to occur (company agreeing with pilots to terminate their plan but agreeing with another group to keep their plan), but the pilots wanted to make their concession agreement contingent on the same pain being shared by all: namely, the termination of their DB pension.
What's so evil about that?
Bear96 seems to understand. I tend to agree with uafa21: I'm not sure the convertible debt is kosher, but we'll see if the creditors complain (or prevail).
FWAAA said:
I don't expect ANYONE to AGREE to have their pension terminated. The fact that the pilots are doing it and that they have tied their entire agreement into the termination of everyone elses plan is the part that is 'evil'
There are a few pilots here trying to defend this. The MEC's lips are sealed, the company has nothing to say about it but EVERYONE else is saying it's bullsh|t
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
FWAAA said:
If ALPA wants to acquiesce their contract, I would not have a problem with it until they drag my a$$ into their contractual stipulations. Their concessionary contract should stand on their ‘own merit’ and not be tied to mine. Of course their ‘PR’ will be better as they can claim that they were willing to help the company but those nasty ‘other little’ folks would not follow our lead and they are the real culprits in the actions that will eventually cause the demise of the ‘Lazy U’.
Transference of blame should not be an excuse for being ‘gutless’ and you can take your ‘1st year law student’ innuendo and ……!!!
B) UT
Lawyers aside, I can almost bet that this one is going to the court. The pilot's have seemingly stuck their own foot up their own a$$ thinking (hee,hee) they were gonna get away with something.
I guess old Ronin was right all along
I guess old Ronin was right all along
The Gopher
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kcabpilot said:
Oh, do you have a retirement account with your name on it? No? Then it isn't your pension! That's the whole problem, pensions are paid out of a general fund, not an individual account. Switch to a DC 401k and then you'll have your pension!
The Gopher said:
I don't know about UA but at AA they give us a statement saying how many years an employee has and how much they can expect to receive at a certain age. IT IS DEFERRED COMPENSATION that the employees have earned and are entitled to receive.
U
UAL_TECH
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kcabpilot said:
Kabpilot,
I (like you) never believed that ALPA would ‘intentionally’ throw any union member under the bus as they have and I quite agree that Ronin may have been right all along (sad as it is). Unfortunately we have forces (unionized and managerial) that are diligently working to make us acquiesce to their unreasonable demands. We have been played like a fiddle as we continue to devote much time and effort to save something that doesn’t want to be saved.
Take Care Sir and we will see how this all pans out,
B) UAL_TECH
Gopher,
Being one of the self proclaimed ‘insiders’ you “know†the ‘political’ infrastructure that exists here at the ‘Lazy U’. Everyone tries to justify their position (without accountability=situation normal).
You can chide about the 10% of the unionized work force not hitting a lick and I can chide of (at least) 20% of management screwing up and not being held accountable (with another 10% not hitting a lick).
If you want to make me accountable, great!!! But in turn you (as management) must be accountable also!!!
Reading your 30+ posts I can understand where you might be coming from but your delivery might need some ‘personal’ reassessment. Having been ‘raised’ from the unwashed masses to your omnipotent position as one whom has an ear to WHQ is unimpressive. It is quite admirable that you were able to work in a ‘union’ position as a ramper and reap the pay and benefits from years of organized labor sacrifices to put you at a moderately comfortable level wherein you were able to afford further education.
Your rejection of the historical forces that have been sacrificed to give you a ‘reasonable’ wage as a ramper that has assisted you to your current level, and your apparent lack of reflection and appreciation astounds me!!!
JMHO,
B) UT
To all you uninformed folks wrongfully bashing my union,
Just to let you know, I was going to vote "NO" even though it wouldn't have made a difference. This TA will pass by 70%. I can now say with pride that I will be voting "YES" just to twist the knife in your backs a little more. 😀
Merry Christmas boys and girls.
737
P.S. Get a clue.
Just to let you know, I was going to vote "NO" even though it wouldn't have made a difference. This TA will pass by 70%. I can now say with pride that I will be voting "YES" just to twist the knife in your backs a little more. 😀
Merry Christmas boys and girls.
737
P.S. Get a clue.
Ahhhh,
But you won't bring it down. At the end of the day AFA will have an agreement, and it will pass. You are the folks that voted for that ten year monstrosity you called a contract and then bitched and moaned every single day afterward. I found it amusing that it passed, but I never talked to a single F/A who voted for it.
737
P.S. Fly, you know I still love ya!
But you won't bring it down. At the end of the day AFA will have an agreement, and it will pass. You are the folks that voted for that ten year monstrosity you called a contract and then bitched and moaned every single day afterward. I found it amusing that it passed, but I never talked to a single F/A who voted for it.
737
P.S. Fly, you know I still love ya!
casual rat
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Fly said:
Management is showing it's capabilities, we don't even have to do anything, they're doing it for us!
