UAL Corp. quarterly loss at $152 million

[ualdriver]

Mr. UAL Driver, it may not matter to you, but to the person with the six year old in tow, who'd like to visit the cockpit upon arrival and have a friendly encounter with the cockpit crew, for a mere two minutes, IT DOES MATTER. It is those experiences that often leave a favorable impression on a youngster that may inspire him or her to one day become an aviator.

I don't agree. First of all, in my opinion there is a glut of professional pilots in the U.S. right now, which is why entry level pilot positions (i.e. flight instructing, hauling freight, express carriers) pay poverty level wages. Literally. Maybe I don't want that little kid to be a pilot someday so I can limit supply and get entry level wages back up where they should be! He-he.

Yeah, I know it matters to the little kid. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter to the parents. And I'll give him his wings and his 737 card when he comes up. Unfortunately, however, the next time they go to Disney World, they'll be on Orbitz sorting by price. Don't get me wrong, I don't "dis" my passengers. I just don't do out of my way for non-high yield passengers or the company anymore. There's simply no return in such behavior. Although I do open the strollers on the jetway before I leave. Does that count?



On a similar note, I could merely cook your meal and sling it up to the cockpit, but I don't. On my flight, I will line your tray with an extra white linen, warm your bread roll, plate your meal, keep the tin on it to keep it from going cold, and include whatever extras I may have, such as warm nuts or an ice cream sundae. These are extras that I don't have to do, but that I do out of respect for your position...and profession, and out of respect for my own integrity and work ethic. As Straaight Talk eloquently stated, my diminished pay doesn't define who I am, nor the quality of my work performance.

And you know what? That's nice, and as a fellow co-worker I appreciate that. I really do. And I really enjoy working with my co-workers as well. That's what makes the job bearable. That's why I always invite the crew out at our layovers together. That's why I always support my flight attendants' every possible request and concern. I always tell my flight attendants and my co-pilot that I'll buy the third and fifth rounds when we get to the bar, too. That's good, right?

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Straaight Talk: You and I are clearly speaking the same language. Getting safely from point A to point B is a given. That is the basic fundamental of air transport. What sets a company...or individual apart, is service. And Mr. UAL Driver, it may not matter to you, but to the person with the six year old in tow, who'd like to visit the cockpit upon arrival and have a friendly encounter with the cockpit crew, for a mere two minutes, IT DOES MATTER. It is those experiences that often leave a favorable impression on a youngster that may inspire him or her to one day become an aviator. On a similar note, I could merely cook your meal and sling it up to the cockpit, but I don't. On my flight, I will line your tray with an extra white linen, warm your bread roll, plate your meal, keep the tin on it to keep it from going cold, and include whatever extras I may have, such as warm nuts or an ice cream sundae. These are extras that I don't have to do, but that I do out of respect for your position...and profession, and out of respect for my own integrity and work ethic. As Straaight Talk eloquently stated, my diminished pay doesn't define who I am, nor the quality of my work performance. You remind me of the type of pilot who won't turn on channel nine, oblivious to the fact that many of our customers choose our airline BECAUSE of channel nine. It is attitudes like yours that create the kind of disconnect between the pilot group and the flight attendant group. If you will merely step out of your own ego-centric narrow world view, you will find that a little goodness does go a long way. UAL Driver and Jetz: I challenge you to be a little bigger than your pay cut and remind you both that you're not hauling cargo nor flying for the U.S. military. As an airline, we are in the business of SERVICE. Perhaps they didn't teach you that at DENTK. I challenge both of you to not play quite so small...because the attitude that you have both displayed on this board is not admirable nor something to aspire to...

VERY well said, Jamake. Thank you for your eloquence and for the obvious pride in what you do.

 

[UnitedChicago]

Straaight Talk: You and I are clearly speaking the same language. Getting safely from point A to point B is a given. That is the basic fundamental of air transport. What sets a company...or individual apart, is service. And Mr. UAL Driver, it may not matter to you, but to the person with the six year old in tow, who'd like to visit the cockpit upon arrival and have a friendly encounter with the cockpit crew, for a mere two minutes, IT DOES MATTER. It is those experiences that often leave a favorable impression on a youngster that may inspire him or her to one day become an aviator. On a similar note, I could merely cook your meal and sling it up to the cockpit, but I don't. On my flight, I will line your tray with an extra white linen, warm your bread roll, plate your meal, keep the tin on it to keep it from going cold, and include whatever extras I may have, such as warm nuts or an ice cream sundae. These are extras that I don't have to do, but that I do out of respect for your position...and profession, and out of respect for my own integrity and work ethic. As Straaight Talk eloquently stated, my diminished pay doesn't define who I am, nor the quality of my work performance. You remind me of the type of pilot who won't turn on channel nine, oblivious to the fact that many of our customers choose our airline BECAUSE of channel nine. It is attitudes like yours that create the kind of disconnect between the pilot group and the flight attendant group. If you will merely step out of your own ego-centric narrow world view, you will find that a little goodness does go a long way. UAL Driver and Jetz: I challenge you to be a little bigger than your pay cut and remind you both that you're not hauling cargo nor flying for the U.S. military. As an airline, we are in the business of SERVICE. Perhaps they didn't teach you that at DENTK. I challenge both of you to not play quite so small...because the attitude that you have both displayed on this board is not admirable nor something to aspire to...

very well said

Ok - enought about the BET - how do we get rid of these clowns?

 

[ualdriver]

You get the big banks and institutional investors to realize that the top of the food chain needs a culling. Considering that they just implicitly gave them a raise, I think you're out of luck for at least a year.

 

[Busdrvr]

Let me see if I can explain the problem...

The company says UAL pilots are worth no more per hour than the lowest paid pilots in the industry. As a matter of fact, our esteemed non college grad senior exec john Teague has been repeatedly quoted as saying UAL's pilots (90% of whom have more education than Mr Teague) are still overpaid while he and the other management folks are underpaid.

What is the purpose of BET? Is it to make the pilots more productive? If the answer is No, then don't waste my F'n time. If the answer is yes, then a pilot, upon completion of the program, is now more skilled than the lowest paid folks at other carriers, and therefore should be compensated for their additional skills.

But what do you think the REAL purpose is? I have to think the company believes it has the potential to make UAL more profitable. The problem is the COMPANY wants to enjoy the extra largess of my skills without giving any to me.

solution? Simple. Negotiate with ALPA. Tell ALPA how much you are willing to pay the pilots to get this extra skill. If ALPA wants to be paid more than the extra skill is worth, then no BET. If the company is willing to pay what my time is worth because it will result in even higher revenue for them, then everybody is happy.

BTW, I commuted my first 6 months, then moved to a domicile. UAL has some of the most expensive domiciles in the industry. If you can't pay wages high enough to support a reasonable standard of living for you employees, then you must EXPECT them to commute, and therefore, must EXPECT the downside of commuters. Schedule trips more efficiently so you can get 15 hours in 3 days and still have the time to commute in on day one and out on day 3 and guess what, THE PILOTS WILL STICK AROUND FOR SMILES AND PHOTO OPS.

I have NEVER left an airplane with pax on it to go home. NEVER. I've pulled a bunch of strollers out of the luggage bin and I've given my share of cockpit tours. you need to realize that I did that because I WANTED TO. If you want it to be a requirement, then last I checked, federal law says you gotta pay for it.

If by not giving your kid a cockpit tour in Orlando made your kid not want to be a pilot, then we did you an enormous favor!!

 

[Bear96]

'Nuff said

Dude, chill.

I was seriously asking if your contract prohibits the training. Your (and ALPA's position) is apparently that it does. Thanks for the info. That is all I was asking. Sorry if it didn't come across that way.

If I was a paying passenger (and I am several times a year at least), I really could care less if the Captain comes out of the cockpit and flashes me his/her pearly whites when I walk off the airplane. I want him to get me and my family's a$$ safely from point A to B. Beyond that, I really could care less what he/she does and I won't pay extra for a "friendly" Captain, either. Much like most of my airline's customers.

I actually agree with that.

I have never understood the hang-up some F/As have that the pilots don't stick around to help say "buh-bye." As far as I know, that is not part of their job responsibilities.

Hey, if a pilot wants to stick around, great. But if not, no biggie.

A question for the UA pilots (and F/As) here -- how long after block-in does your duty time end? For F/As it is 15 or 30 minutes from what I remember (for domestic, working legs; I know it is different for deadheading, international (to account for customs, etc.)) -- can someone refresh my memory as to exactly what it is? If it is the same for both pilots and F/As, I guess that would support the argument that pilots should be doing the "buh-byes." If it is shorter for pilots, I don't see how an F/A can argue the pilots should remain on board with them until all passengers are off.

 

[767jetz]

-- can someone refresh my memory as to exactly what it is?

It's 15 minutes after block in. (The last time the parking brake is set) That 15 minutes is not for "buh-byes." It is specifically for post flight duties such as securing engines, checklists, securing the cockpit if the plane is to overnight, dealing with inbound write ups and mechanical issues, briefing the next crew on weather or maintenance issues if applicable, and on layovers it it also for getting to our transportation pickup since often we are on minimum rest and that rest is required by the FAA.

 

[Fly]

and on layovers it it also for getting to our transportation pickup since often we are on minimum rest and that rest is required by the FAA.

Now that is funny Hurry up, scurry to the bus. Of course, you have to sit in it, waiting for the flight attendants that are saying buh-bye.

 

[767jetz]

Now that is funny Hurry up, scurry to the bus. Of course, you have to sit in it, waiting for the flight attendants that are saying buh-bye.

Really?? Now THAT is funny. Where do you layover?

I almost never layover with the flight attendants anymore. I'd say over 90% of the time we either go to different hotels or the FA's are continuing on to their next leg. In fact, I'd say it's rare that I fly with the same cabin crew on even 2 consecutive flights.

Oh! and P.S. When we do layover with the FA's, who says we sit their and wait. We just send the van back for them later!

I mean, we are all arrogant, self centered A-holes anyway, right?

 

[StraaightTaalk]

It's 15 minutes after block in. (The last time the parking brake is set) That 15 minutes is not for "buh-byes." It is specifically for post flight duties such as securing engines, checklists, securing the cockpit if the plane is to overnight, dealing with inbound write ups and mechanical issues, briefing the next crew on weather or maintenance issues if applicable, and on layovers it it also for getting to our transportation pickup since often we are on minimum rest and that rest is required by the FAA.

I always have found the poor performers around us, the ones content with lackluster job performance, find very convenient ways to rationalize their lack of effort.

 

[Fly]

Really?? Now THAT is funny. Where do you layover?

I almost never layover with the flight attendants anymore. I'd say over 90% of the time we either go to different hotels or the FA's are continuing on to their next leg. In fact, I'd say it's rare that I fly with the same cabin crew on even 2 consecutive flights.

Oh! and P.S. When we do layover with the FA's, who says we sit their and wait. We just send the van back for them later!

I mean, we are all arrogant, self centered A-holes anyway, right?

Geez, I had no idea you were just a puppy.

"Where do I normally layover", you asked.

***Munich and Sao Paulo, but I just heard we're getting a nonstop to Rio in October here so I think I'll give that a shot too. I tried Kuwait but I enjoy a glass of vino too much in the evening. ***

Question for you. Do you drink the coffee the f/a's give you the next day after sending the van back for them? If so, he's militay (Brave puppy!)

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I almost never layover with the flight attendants anymore.

I'm sure that's a relief to them.

 

[Busdrvr]

I always have found the poor performers around us, the ones content with lackluster job performance, find very convenient ways to rationalize their lack of effort.

now that's funny coming from you. I guess weez pyluts is just lazy old low proformers...

Yup, that's right. most of us served our country (or still do), excelled at everything we've done, got masters degree's (credible ones) and rose to the top of our profession. Yep, we're all slackers.

But if bashing folks who worked harder than you to get where they are to today makes you feel better about yourself, then knock yourself out.

when I flew, i strived to be the BEST pilot I could possibly be and to help those around me out of courtesy. It's not part of the job, and it's offensive for some troll to suggest it is.

I guess by your logic it's now the job of F/A's to sleep with the pilots because a few have gone the extra mile for the morale of fellow employees in the past.

 

[LCC_#1]

Just a simple question. Ok, three. Could it be that the drive to enhance service to the biz customer has helped to contribute to the wide loses?

I know when we left chapter 11, we cut and slashed bare bones and while we ran off alot of customers to you guys, UAUA has taken the financial risk to lure the high end customer...which btw I applaud.

Perhaps many are expecting too high an expectation until a true test of time passes?

Perhaps US has learned you really can shrink a company (size and money) to profitability? I know, scarey!!

Hang in there, guys. I really think...short of that training thing and the waste of money associated (been there, done that...just my opinion), you guys seem to be headed in the right direction.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

now that's funny coming from you. I guess weez pyluts is just lazy old low proformers...

Many of you are. Sitting on your rear-ends waiting for the next meal to arrive, and then throwing a temper tantrum when you don't get your choice. Most of you have never grown up. I blame it on your mothers.

Yup, that's right. most of us served our country (or still do

And we, the taxpayers, paid for many of your educations. You didn't do it for free.

excelled at everything we've done,

Like marriage? Considering that most of you have two or three ex-wives running around, I guess excelling at everything you've done does not include working on inter-personal relationships.

got masters degree's (credible ones)

I know of far more flight attendants with advanced degrees than pilots. Of course, if your idea of a "credible" institution of higher learning includes those which advertise on matchbook covers, then maybe you might have a legitimate claim.

rose to the top of our profession.

You're not doctors; you're not scientists. You do not contribute anything lasting to society. Quit patting yourself on the back about being at "the top of the [the] profession." You are HOURLY LABOR, like the rest of us.

But if bashing folks who worked harder than you

Typical pilot arrogance. Master of the universe, you are not.

when I flew, i strived to be the BEST pilot I could possibly be and to help those around me out of courtesy. It's not part of the job

Courtesy is most certainly part of your job. You are in the public transportation business, a service industry.