spacewaitress
Senior
- Aug 27, 2002
- 468
- 0
Yes BET, or BEI, or whatever the hell it is, was a total waste of time.
UAL Corp. quarterly loss at $152 million
- Thread starter FA Mikey
- Start date
We have to go for 2 days (not your 1 day) and it is also on our days off. I don't think you should be getting any special priority considering that the entire class is worthless. We also aren't allowed trip drops to be there. (and we aren't paid our hourly wages either). Also, we do NOT get a vacation day restored next year to make up for it.
To be fair, it's not really your fault. For some reason, United has allowed our pilots to collect their bags to get off the plane and catch their commuter flights home. I think the pilots should not only attend this class but should also be forced to stand at the door during deplaining and say goodbye to our passengers just like they do on all the other airlines. Rest assured, our passengers want to see the pilots.....so give them what they want.
To be fair, it's not really your fault. For some reason, United has allowed our pilots to collect their bags to get off the plane and catch their commuter flights home. I think the pilots should not only attend this class but should also be forced to stand at the door during deplaining and say goodbye to our passengers just like they do on all the other airlines. Rest assured, our passengers want to see the pilots.....so give them what they want.
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
- 4,265
- 4
JAMAKE1
Veteran
Fly:
I couldn't agree with you more!
Jetz's post reflects the arrogance that often permeates behind the door of a UAL cockpit...
I couldn't agree with you more!
Jetz's post reflects the arrogance that often permeates behind the door of a UAL cockpit...
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
I agree, too. It's the same arrogance that pervades the cockpits of AA aircraft, too. The last time I checked, those passengers pay the pilots' paychecks, too.
Jerks.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
No I don't. Never said I support Tilton. At least not currently. All I'm saying is that you have to dig a little deeper than the surface to ascertain the true financial health of UAUA. And I believe Tilton and crew are acutely aware of the current politics surrounding their ridiculous bonus and the discontent of the employees.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
As for all the "pilot-haters" coming out...
I think you're all over reacting a bit here. This has nothing to do with arrogance. You're all attaching your own hidden meaning to what I said. I can't help you with that.
As I said, I think BET is a waste of time and money for EVERYONE, and each of you should consider if you believe it is useful to you personally. Sorry, but I just don't see how that is an arrogant position.
However I can only speak with regard to the pilots. (And ALPA's official position is against BET for pilots) I don't presume to tell any other employee group what they should do or what position their union should take on the matter, if any at all. That's between you and your reps.
Fly,
As for your comments about leaving the cockpit, I don't understand where all the hostility is coming from. FA's are required to be on board when passengers are present. Pilots are not. Don't complain to me about the FAA's rules.
I've been on many other airlines, and I can say without exception that when they have some place else to be, the pilots are gone like the wind. Even on Jet Blue. And don't presume it is just to catch their flight home. We are often running to another flight to preflight a new airplane for our next leg. The company doesn't LET us leave. They WANT us to leave when we are done. The sooner we are out, the sooner the next pilot can squeeze in when there's an opening so they can turn the plane quickly.
And I've never heard an FA complain when I'm running out to hold the crew bus for them, as I almost always do. I've never turned down a cockpit visit and I've sent my fair share of kids pictures on my own time via email.
So please spare me the "your too arrogant to care about anyone else" routine. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Unfortunately, no. One of the many concessions we made. vacation no longer pays for the days of flying you lose. One vacation day is only worth 2.8 hours. So is a training day, even though training lasts far longer than 2.8 hours.
I think you're all over reacting a bit here. This has nothing to do with arrogance. You're all attaching your own hidden meaning to what I said. I can't help you with that.
As I said, I think BET is a waste of time and money for EVERYONE, and each of you should consider if you believe it is useful to you personally. Sorry, but I just don't see how that is an arrogant position.
However I can only speak with regard to the pilots. (And ALPA's official position is against BET for pilots) I don't presume to tell any other employee group what they should do or what position their union should take on the matter, if any at all. That's between you and your reps.
Fly,
As for your comments about leaving the cockpit, I don't understand where all the hostility is coming from. FA's are required to be on board when passengers are present. Pilots are not. Don't complain to me about the FAA's rules.
I've been on many other airlines, and I can say without exception that when they have some place else to be, the pilots are gone like the wind. Even on Jet Blue. And don't presume it is just to catch their flight home. We are often running to another flight to preflight a new airplane for our next leg. The company doesn't LET us leave. They WANT us to leave when we are done. The sooner we are out, the sooner the next pilot can squeeze in when there's an opening so they can turn the plane quickly.
And I've never heard an FA complain when I'm running out to hold the crew bus for them, as I almost always do. I've never turned down a cockpit visit and I've sent my fair share of kids pictures on my own time via email.
So please spare me the "your too arrogant to care about anyone else" routine. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Unfortunately, no. One of the many concessions we made. vacation no longer pays for the days of flying you lose. One vacation day is only worth 2.8 hours. So is a training day, even though training lasts far longer than 2.8 hours.
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
BS.
The only time I see a pilot move fast is when they can cut out early to catch their commuter flight, or when they see an unattended newspaper.
Funny how fast some of those guys can move when there's something in it for them.
Your comment about "pilot-haters" was comical. You say it like it's a bad thing when we KNOW how many "flight attendant-haters" there are hidden behind the safety of the cockpit door.
spacewaitress
Senior
- Aug 27, 2002
- 468
- 0
So Straaight...what's the difference in that and letting an extra flight attendant run out early so they can catch their commuter flight?
If someone commutes, I try to help them any way I can...and over 50% or our flight attendants and pilots commute at UAL!
If someone commutes, I try to help them any way I can...and over 50% or our flight attendants and pilots commute at UAL!
UnitedChicago
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 756
- 0
ok- fair enough. and so when we dig deeper, we see that they still posted a loss when all other legacies out of BK earned money.
Unacceptable
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
There is no difference between a pilot "skipping out" and a flight attendant "jumping ship" before passengers have deplaned.
Personally, I take exception to either scenario. I commuted for years, and never once, no matter how inconvenient for me, did I ask my fellow flight attendants to cover for me while I ran for a commuter flight.
It's a job...not volunteer work.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
EXACTLY.
My job ends when the airplane is safely parked at the gate and the checklist is complete.
Your job ends when the passengers are off the airplane.
It's in the job description. Look it up.
No one should expect to get paid for work not done. At the same time, we don't perform volunteer work for the company. As you said... it's a job.
Jeez Straaight! You sure do carry around lots of anger. Personally, I don't have the time to waste hating anyone. I'm sorry your world is such a hateful place. If AA is really THAT bad maybe you should consider alternate employment.
So ALPA is (and/or you are) mad that UA wants to pay you according to the contract?
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
That's not exactly what I said. Flight training is part of our job description. We all know that going into the simulators to sharpen and test our skills as aviators during recurrent training is part of being a pilot. And we all know that the 2.8 hours of pay was a concession that we agreed to in our contract.
ALPA's stance (and mine) is that all flight training is approved by not just the FAA but also ALPA. ALPA is deeply involved with the structure and execution of the flight training program. BET is not flight training. ALPA had no input in it's structure or execution. It is not required by the FAA. Therefore, the company is passing this off as training when really it is not the training we agreed to be paid 2.8 hours for. They are trying to slip this through a gray area.
One example comes to mind right after 9/11. The company decided to buy Tasers and train us all how to use them. ALPA was involved in the process, and in the end approved the additional training and agreed to the vacation day in lieu of the day off. Another example was "fuel school" that APLA agreed to after 9/11 when conservation became what it is today. Both instances were not required by the FAA or the contract or our job description. In both instances ALPA was consulted, and eventually determined it was advantageous to the group as a whole, and relavant to our jobs, so they agreed.
BET was handled completely differently. How would the flight attendants have felt if they forced you to attend our "fuel school" on your day off just so you could understand the intricate details of aircraft fuel usage and how pilots save fuel in our flight planning as well the daily operation? Would it have made a bit of difference to you and how you perform your job and how you interact with the customers? But if they said they would pay you 8 hours of flight pay to sit through it just as if you were working a flight, would you feel differently about sitting through a class, on your day off, that has no bearing on your job? I bet most would.
No where in our job description or our contract does it allow for the company to arbitrarily require "business" training.
That is the problem I have with it.
The loss isn't due to employee pay or other costs; it must be because ticket prices are too low. UnitedChicago, I agree with you that United needs to raise ticket prices.
