Ual And Usair

[FA Mikey]

I agree it is very tacky to wish, someone else out of a job. It is though a legitimate discussion on how give backs at these two carriers are setting the stage for us all to be cut.

PS before you point fingers at all AAres look to your own board and how you all were carving out UAL. Planning your new west coast bases and flying U to Asia.

 

[SkyLiner]

For those at AA that don't think this self-centered way...We at U thank you!!!

PHL Flufdriver

[post="172712"][/post]​

[/quote]

Hey Fluf, I'm not at AA anymore but I understand your frustrations and fear and alot of us wish U the best. It sometimes takes struggle to build character and empathy towards other people. Some are used to being on the top and have no concept of this.
It's a dog eat dog world or should I say an airline eat airline world. We aren't all rubbing our hands together looking forward to your companys demise. Hang in there and keep your head up.

 

[Flufdriver]

FA Mikey...I realize there are "carvers" on the U board...I don't agree with it at all. I simply think we are ALL in an industry that is in major change and without changes...big changes...we will all be in for a rough ride! The government should go after more of these "Management Theives" for running companies poorly then rewarding them with huge "payoffs. We are simply the "Pawns" on the chess board trying to support our familes. The LCC have won Americas heart and are here to STAY!! The givebacks and consessions are going to keep coming until your/our company(ies) can compete with LCC's! I just read where AA management is wanting more consessions...does this mean I want you out of business...H_ll NO! I've given well over a 100K per year in wage and benefits back and barely can make my house and car payments that we established well before 9/11. I know AA, DAL and a couple of other carriers have deep pockets...but for example DAL has/had deep pockets but there getting less deep everyday at a tune of about 3 to 4 mil/day burn rate. NOBOBY is immune to what is going on in this business! Airtran is eating DAL's lunch in ATL on a daily basis! If DAL pilots take the 35% paycut I can't blame DAL pilots for dragging down the indusrty...there simply answering the cry from the pay rate of the LCC in there own backyard!! I bet you shop at Wal-mart..., they have done the same to the retail industry that LCC's have done to the airlines.

I would love to see all the other carriers including AA to go out of business... and let all the rest of us gain market share and assets from the mis-managed companies, (only kidding) but I would NEVER wish or make comments to such. Character does say alot......

Lets all hope for the best...there is alot more people in this mess then the employee himself. Our and my family worry everyday about tomorrow.

Good luck at AA..and I mean it...this is a real mess we're all in! Our's at U is just a bit more messy right now...........maybe being home every night and not worrying about six month check rides won't be bad. One promise I have with myself is...
if this sinks...I'll drive on every vaction I take. I NEVER want to see an airport, Boeing, Airbus or anything that would or may have a chance of getting airborne again!!! It's to a point now that my neighbors almost make more then me and there HOME every night...not bad!

Again, good luck to ALL of us.

Flufdriver in PHL

 

[FA Mikey]

Thanks, I only know a few people at U. I really do hope yo u guys pull through and are able to rid yourselves of the dead weight called bonner. He may be brilliant at running his retirement fund. At chairing an airline, nope good 'ol boys got to go. It never seems to sink in about keeping his mouth shut.

At AA the flight attendants have taken about 30% plus hit in compensation. Over 16% in across the board pay. Its not even the same job with the loss of many work rules. I do have to say that for me one nice thing (speaking only for ME) is the layovers are shorter now and I have more time at home. I went from lucky to hold a 14 day line to holding 12 or less. Still flying 80 hours.

AA hasn't made mention at this point of needing more cuts. They also funded the pension by 400 million. Then eked out a 8 million profit for the last quarter. The slow season is approaching fast. We will soon see if things hold or not.

 

[Flufdriver]

Thanx for the reply...Mikey...it's always interesting to see what carrier made the business section of the local rag or USA Today....

Hoping we ALL make it through this!!

Flufdriver in PHL(not by choice)

 

[Oneflyer]

I really do hope yo u guys pull through

No you don't. Maybe its not nice to say but as an AA employee you want U gone. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand, when company A provides the same service as company B but for a lesser price virtually everyone will choose company A. F/A and pilots don't seem to get this but LCC offer the same service as legacy carriers, the in-flight experience is virtually the same, unless you're flying in first class. Saying the industry is becoming "Walmartized" is infering that quality is suffering, the fact is that the quality of SWA, Jetblue is identical if not better than what you are getting when you fly legacy carriers, they just offer a less expensive price.

 

[goingboeing]

I wonder how much nobility would be shown on this forum if AA management told you that as a result of United and USAir operating we are going to cut your wages and benefits 50% more and eliminate your retirement fund to compete.

Robert Crandall preached it for years about the advantages that CAL had over AA while they were operating in Chapter 11 protection.

We might as well taxpayer subsidize all business,large and small,whether they are profitable or not.This way we will become like Europe and have a screwed up economy.

Why should the taxpayers pick up the tab for UAL and not do the same for Joe's wheel alignment down the street? Joe had 12 employees and their families who relied on his shop for a livelhood.

 

[Fly]

Why should the taxpayers pick up the tab for UAL and not do the same for Joe's wheel alignment down the street?

[post="172933"][/post]​

You're right....they said NO on the ATSB loan, which was only a guarantee, but now United WILL cancel the pensions and the government WILL be there to pick up the 8.3 BILLION. If our government is this blind to what was going to happen then they deserve it. They won't be able to say NO to United. If they try, United folds and they still pay, regardless. Duh! Way to go you stupid retards in the White House <_<

 

[WingNaPrayer]

. . . . if United were just in Texas . . . DUH!

 

[Oneflyer]

If our government is this blind to what was going to happen then they deserve it. They won't be able to say NO to United. If they try, United folds and they still pay, regardless. Duh! Way to go you stupid retards in the White House

IF you follow the news you will notice that the Pension Guarnantee Corp. is strongly constesting UAL's attempt to unload their pensions.

 

[jimntx]

True, but the point is that if UAL goes under, the PBGC is required under to the law to take over the pension funds. Of course, no one at UAL will be hurt by this move all that much except for the pilots.

 

[Oneflyer]

point is that if UAL goes under, the PBGC is required under to the law

Correct, but the key issue is whether UAL is allowed to dump the pensions without going under. If UAL is allowed to do that, then it only a matter of time before every airline pensions are gone. If the PBGC forces UAL to either sell assets or liquidate to fund their pension then it proves to other airlines that you can't expect to dump your pensions just because you're in bankruptcy. Either way, if you have an airline pension you're odds of seeing all of it are 50-50 at best no matter what airline you work for, if the unions were smart they'd be pushing for some kind of managed defined contribution plan.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

The PBGC has a maximum bail out limit. I believe that limit falls short of United’s needs by about 3.5 billion.

 

[Whadayano]

I seem to recall that the steel companies that went bust--Bethlehem, Wheeling, and a few more--got out of their pension obligations but were also shadows of their former selves afterward, and were broken up/sold, except for Wheeling which the employees bought (and then it went bust again if I recall). In other words, there was almost nothing left for the government to take or sell to cover the obligation.

 

[TheLazarusman]

I am another US employee who would like to add my comments to this board. My dad retired after forty years from AA. I grew up wanting to work for AA but could not because of the nepotism law. By the time it was repealed I was already working for Piedmont. I sincerely wish all of you at AA the very best. I'm sorry if some of you feel that the continued success of US and UA are causing the downgrading of AA. I hope that somehow we can all survive. F*@k competition. I do have mouths to feed, but in my heart I really do love that big blue eagle; even if I do work for US. So, I wish ya'll the very best; and I hope ya'll do the same for us.