I think people at AA like to superimpose other airlines problems onto AA. USairways pensions are like 35% funded, and I think UAL's is around 50%funded. Our pension is around 75% funded with full retirement at age 60!!! As recently as 2000 our pension was 100%+ funded. If AA and the unions agreed to change the retirement age that right there would have a significant impact without lowering the benifit.Wretched Wrench said:
More Wage And Benefit Cuts?
- Thread starter goingboeing
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Wretched Wrench
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- Apr 21, 2003
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What you are saying has some foundation in fact. However, logic doesn't apply here.AAmech said:
If one airline imposes concessions, the others follow to "remain competitive". AA/TWU led the way with a lot of concessions in the eighties, and the other airlines followed. B scale, case in point. In this case, AA is likely to follow. Whatever happens at one airline happens to us all.
It is a race to the bottom, until we are all working for Wal Mart wages and benefits.
MCI transplant
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<_< WW-----What you say is true only until someone has enough B@#LLs to say "NO!" Shut it down!!!!! Will the TWU be that person?? I don't think so!!! As you pointed out, they were the ones to cave in first in the 80's!!!And don't take this as an endorsment of the AMFA!!If it happens again, I'm sure there will be someone, ot there who will ,somehow, blame it all on what is left of TWA, which isn't much these days!!!! :down: Signed: "Just another one of a.a.'s redheaded step children!"
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
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- Oct 9, 2003
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AAmech, anyone who doesn't "SELF-FUND" their own retirement these days is a fool! For instance,in my case I've been saving some money for retirement in other things since I was 18 yrs old. If I ever get any pension money from AA, it will be just extra cash for me to spend. It will not be my main source of retirement funds,as is in your case. If you actually think that today's TWU/AA pension fund will be here 10-20 yrs from now, dream on :blink: buddy. The PGBC is broke and defined benefit pensions are headed the way of the dinosaurs. I don't like it anymore than you do,but that is the facts of the matter. The only way to stop the robbing of our pension funds is for labor to take stand and say no! Only problem is we have company unions like the TWU who will never take stand for anything,but concessions :down: !
Need to do the same thing the executive do . . . . . get the money UP FRONT so the company officer's can't pull an ENRON on you. Contracts, agreements, promises, etc etc. don't mean ANYTHING in today's business legal system. The deck is stacked heavily in favor of senior company officers who can manipulate books and the legal system with $100k a month.
You make many assumtions. Of course if participate in our 401K plan. But it is as a supplement to our Company provided Retirement plan. I've been a dilligent saver since my mid 20's. This is where the 401k plan is great! As a SUPPLEMENT!!!! What makes you think you will receive NOTHING from our pension? And if this country was to collapse to a point where there was no Pensions and no PBGC you can forget about your 401k plan as it won't be there either!PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
"Shut it down" is not an option givin to any labor group. BK law gives the unions an opportunity to modify their contracts. If they refuse, the contract can then be thrown out and the company will drive on without them. Once a contract is thrown out a company can do whatever they wish. Layoff all non-hackers and non-perfomers out of seniority. Set individual payrates. Outsource whatever they please! You name it they can do it! Nobody will care if we say "shut it down"!MCI transplant said:
MCI transplant
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AAmech----- You are lecturing me on the pitfalls of Bankrupcy????? Haven't you forgotten??? I've been through it THREE times already!!!!!As all you nAAtive a.a.ers have so often reminded us!!!When I say "Shut it down!" I don't mean take it into bankrupcy! There was a time, in the not too distant past when Unions meant something!! They didn't play the lawers game! They acted!!! That's the problem!!! I don't think this generation has the B#@LLs to stand up to them!!! So you get what you sew!!! SAD!!! SAD!!!Checking it Out
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It will take a major change in peoples attitudes to have them stand up and make the changes need for long term survivalship and an enjoyable retirement. I believe we all need to make sure our portfolio is diversified enough to withstand the downturns.
AA like many in the Industry is having a hard go of it, all we have to do is see what is happening in the European market to see the writing on the wall!
AA like many in the Industry is having a hard go of it, all we have to do is see what is happening in the European market to see the writing on the wall!
LiveInAHotel
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- Nov 5, 2003
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Typical response from an anti-union Kool-AAid drinking unemployed AA employee.Garfield1966 said:
operaations
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Finally Hotel is back let the fireworks between him and Garfield beginLiveInAHotel said:
Wretched Wrench
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Garfield1966
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Nah. Sorry opps. I think I'll sit this one up.operaations said:Finally Hotel is back let the fireworks between him and Garfield begin
I have VC for 3 weeks coming up and I have to many things to do. He is no longer as entertaining as he once was. And besides, he never did answer my question.
At least he did get half of my description right. I sure do hate unions.
MCI transplant
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<_< Hey Garfield! Ever think there's a good chance you have a three week VC is because of the Unions??????
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