Ual And Usair

[jsn25911]

oh really! may be aa ought to go out instead i happen to be a usair employee and i'd love to see my airline survive i view your statement about us and us ought to go as a direct assualt on me and my fellow employees at usair! you should be asham,ed after how you were treated by the last ceo though not as bad as how we at usair are getting you at least are considered an assesst as we the usair ought to go bye bye are only liabilities.

[post="172103"][/post]​

Just wanted you to know that there are many that wish the best for you. I hope that you survive and show those that wished your failure.

Unfortunately we (TWA) have been linked with the "me, me, me" airlines.

Being a TWA employee - we understand exactly what you are experiencing. If you ever see an AA crew - don't just assume that all of us have the "me, me, me" mentality.

Good luck.

 

[mjk]

i happen to be a usair employee and i'd love to see my airline survive

[post="172103"][/post]​

I'd love to see your airline survive too, but the fact of the matter is the weak airlines (UAL, USAir) are dragging down the other major carriers (AMR, DAL, CO, etc). The only reason USAir is operating right now is because of the goverment loan they received and the poor investment decision of the retirement system of Alabama.

In this post 9-11 world there are about 2-3 more major US air carriers than the demand can support. Not to mention the LCC's that have taken up a huge chunk of market share. It's not a nice thought to ponder, but it's reality.

it's just about the me, myself, and I mentality.

[post="172112"][/post]​

It's far from that, silverbullet. I wish all airline employees could sit around the campfire and sing cumbya, but the free-market system doesn't work that way. The strong survive, the weak perish.

 

[Oneflyer]

AA could also go the route of Delta and get out of the spare parts business by contracting it out to Boeing. Delta says this saves them 20-25% of their parts operating costs.source:The Tulsa World article

I actually spoke to someone at AFW about this and AA has been working with Boeing for a couple of years now, but it just doesn't seem to work.

AA management needs to hunker down and look at ways to save in every facet of the operation including spare parts.

They are, just because they don't personally tell you what they are doing every day doesn't mean there not working on it. I know for a fact AA is working on a project to improve and simplify its parts supply chain, specifically in TUL.

This blanket criticizem of "management" really burns me up. The people that do always seem to play both sized of the arguement, saying we've got too many schedulers, but that the schedules suck, well its probably not both.

All the smart people in the world didn't go work for a union, leaving the dumb people the management jobs. Part of being a good manager is seeing the big picture, not just what is going on in your specific location.

You can moan and cry all day about AA management but the fact is there doing pretty damn well given the circumstances. Hell, without pension payments, AA would have made more money than SWA in the first half of '04, (SWA does not have a defined benefit pension plan), what more do you want? Do you want UAL's management? Maybe U's or DAL's?

 

[Oneflyer]

i happen to be a usair employee

I hope you have your resume ready, because USair is dead as a door-nail. At some point, economics prevals and when it does U will be right next to Eastern in the graveyard.

 

[Garfield1966]

The problem is that if someone does not make the HARD choices including job reductions there may not be any AA left for anyone to work.

I do not have the position or the compensation for the postion that requires these kinds of decisions.

No pain-No gain
AA is going to have a very difficult time surviving in today's market if the leadership does not make some painful changes.

[post="172071"][/post]​

Boeing,

You are preaching to the choir. The thing is we do not have king of AA. We have a whole bunch of fiefdoms. That can be good or bad depending on how one looks at it. If we had a king, the king could decree for example that all flights will go out with FAA minimums. Huge savings in revenue right there. The down side is that customer service will probably go down. Since we have no king, if that proposal were made even on limited flights, like domestic 757/737 the union would scream bloody murder and fight it tooth and nail.

The choices are their but it would seem that no one has the absolute power to implement them. That is probably a good thing in many ways but when the inmates are helping run the asylum there are problems. When abusers of the system are not held accountable, the system falls apart. With any luck some of the changes we are making will help us muddle through. I have a long way to go till retirement and I would like to stick it out with AA.

People need to stop thinking about them selves for just a moment and look at the world around them. There are 3 airlines that are swirling the bowl and who are in much worse shape than we are. The UAL folks may loose their pension. They have been in BK for nearly 2 years. There were those on this board who thought that would have been a great idea for AA. Don’t hear much of that talk anymore do we? Delta is going after their employees with a vengeance and one they get the cuts, they will probably be laying off people as well. US air is looking at filing BK a 2nd time (as if one time is not enough). Not sure what you folks are reading but AA was the only one out of the big boys to turn a profit. I guess management is doing a few things right. The world has changed. It was changing long before 9/11. Unless you have a skill set that cannot be easily replaced, then you need to accept the fact that you can either do more for less and hope that one day your lot in life improves, or you can wait for the person in line behind you to volunteer to do the job.

Don’t bother with Wing. He plays arm chair quarterback. He is not a CEO because there is no one who will offer him a $1 for his thoughts and that right there should tell you something. He knows nothing of running a 90,000 person company and making decisions that will piss off the least number of people. I am no fan of management but it never ceases to amaze me how many people think they can do a better job. Reminds me of when I was a kid, thought my folks were idiots. Thought being an adult was a piece of cake. Man what I would not give to go back to the time when my biggest worry was … oh yea. I had not worries. Can any one give me an example of a employees that think their management team is the cats meow?

 

[WingNaPrayer]

You know Garfield, all you do is make excuses. So what if no one else is running their business up to your standards, that doesn't matter. AMR is a mess with a mix-mash of key management that moved in from ranks unknown when those who had been there for years, some as many as 20, thought they would be better off to dump AA and go to a competitor who is in bankruptcy for chrissakes! That says a lot about the shape of AA and AMR, hell, I've seen monkey-$hit fights at the zoo that are more organized than AA!

They have their President and CEO traveling the country meeting "pre-selected" employees, pouring them more Kool-AAid and reading from a script that is getting to be a very old song and dance.

As long as the board has to put up with your excuses why management should be forgiven or excused for not taking control of a worsening situation, then you have to put up with their critics of which in no way am I the only one!

Defend all you like. Until YOU offer something solid, you haven't earned the right to ask others for any answers either.

The sad thing is, your attitude is not unique at AA, your fleeting customers see it in almost every FA they meet! If you think your job is safe as long as the only answer the top paid brass can come up with is 99.00 fares, no amenities and dirty aircraft, then the unemployment line is something that I can't wait to hear you've joined!

 

[AgMedallion]

Given the state of many of these companies and the scandals at the top. Its a good thing to not be included in that picture. Its a shame because some of the lowest end people see more money that could be saved. Some times its small change. Sometimes not. If you are losing millions of dollars, should you not you be interested in saving every last dollar you can? No one is claiming to be a CEO. It would just be nice if one took the time to see all the waste and out dated procedures that bleed us daily. I guess they are too insulated by people with there cute little one liners.

[post="172095"][/post]​

Agreed. I just appreciated the "cute little one liner". The real shame is when the incompetent, money-grubbing boobs (Wolf & Gangwal come immediately to mind) get performance bonuses for horrible performance, retention bonuses when no other sane company would want them, and then, to add insult to injury, get exorbitant severance packages. In the meantime, the hard-working average employee is either getting his/her pay and benefits cut or getting furloughed (and the execs are laughing all the way to the bank). Of course, this isn't even counting the average investors who are getting shafted big time.

 

[FA Mikey]

Agreed. I just appreciated the "cute little one liner". The real shame is when the incompetent, money-grubbing boobs (Wolf & Gangwal come immediately to mind) get performance bonuses for horrible performance, retention bonuses when no other sane company would want them, and then, to add insult to injury, get exorbitant severance packages. In the meantime, the hard-working average employee is either getting his/her pay and benefits cut or getting furloughed (and the execs are laughing all the way to the bank). Of course, this isn't even counting the average investors who are getting shafted big time.

[post="172323"][/post]​

Its time to stand up to this. BOD's and SR execs. They have a great little thing going. We all suffer for there ability to reward temselves for work that would land the avaerage employee on the street.

 

[goingboeing]

Inefficient companies should be put out of business. The taxpayers should not be required to prop up companies that cannot make a profit.
This includes airlines that CONTINUE to lose money in bankruptcy or airlines that want to run back to bankruptcy because the management refuses to change a failed business plan.

If 2 rounds of wage concessions has not saved UsAir how in the hell do you think another round of concessions will save the airline?

Nothing like a company stealing from its employees retirement fund to compensate for a failed business model.[UAL]
How about the bankruptcy judge requiring UAL to sell off some of its assets and putting the money in the employee retirement funds.

UAL management wants to DUMP their incomptence on the American taxpayer through the PBGC.This is WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

If AA cannot stay out of bankrupcy or revise the business model to make a profit if they choose chapter11, then AA needs to go out of business also! Creditors and employees can only prop up a loser for so long.

 

[WorldTraveler]

One of the investment houses did an analysis on JetBlue and stated that they expect that B6 lost money in the transcon markets, meaning that virtually every other player in those markets did as well. There is far too much money being lost for that condition to persist. A shakeout will come. The question is whether DL simply moves in and takes UA's place in the transcon markets since DL has been expanding from JFK while UA is cutting back.

goingboeing,
Tell us some of the specific proposals you would introduce to turn AA around. Aside from the minimum staffing (which will surely affect AA's ability to extract premium revenue - which it gets), what would you do?

 

[Oneflyer]

AMR is a mess with a mix-mash of key management that moved in from ranks unknown when those who had been there for years, some as many as 20, thought they would be better off to dump AA and go to a competitor who is in bankruptcy for chrissakes! That says a lot about the shape of AA and AMR,

You just don't know what the hell you're talking about. The upper management that is leaving is getting there salaries doubled, tripled, or more. Jeff Campbell went from 500k to over 2 MILLION. That should tell you something about what other people think of AA's management. Frankly, for upper level management the airline business sucks, you don't make competitive salaries and you idiots (like you WING) constantly second guessing what they do. The vast majority of AA's upper management are there because they WANT to be there not because the HAVE to be there.

 

[Oneflyer]

We still have too many people at TULE [management and workforce]

GB, one reason you may not have seen more of reduction in headcount is that AA is attempting to bring in outside maintenance business to TUL and AFW to generate revenue and yes save union jobs.

 

[goingboeing]

One of the investment houses did an analysis on JetBlue and stated that they expect that B6 lost money in the transcon markets, meaning that virtually every other player in those markets did as well. There is far too much money being lost for that condition to persist. A shakeout will come. The question is whether DL simply moves in and takes UA's place in the transcon markets since DL has been expanding from JFK while UA is cutting back.

goingboeing,
Tell us some of the specific proposals you would introduce to turn AA around. Aside from the minimum staffing (which will surely affect AA's ability to extract premium revenue - which it gets), what would you do?

[post="172560"][/post]​

I have made numerous suggestions thru the months that address areas such as spare parts,gate turn times,personnel,procurement procedures,ect.

There are individuals [supervision and labor] that are making an effort to safely effect the bottom line.The problem with this is that there are too many kingdoms within AA to QUICKLY make improvements.
A production supervisor did,in a very timely manner, recently help me get a necessary part with frequent useage that had previously not been stocked.This saves AA $1000 everytime the part is needed because before we had to order the whole unit with the part and rob it.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Inefficient companies should be put out of business. The taxpayers should not be required to prop up companies that cannot make a profit.
This includes airlines that CONTINUE to lose money in bankruptcy or airlines that want to run back to bankruptcy because the management refuses to change a failed business plan.

If 2 rounds of wage concessions has not saved UsAir how in the hell do you think another round of concessions will save the airline?

Nothing like a company stealing from its employees retirement fund to compensate for a failed business model.[UAL]
How about the bankruptcy judge requiring UAL to sell off some of its assets and putting the money in the employee retirement funds.

UAL management wants to DUMP their incomptence on the American taxpayer through the PBGC.This is WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

If AA cannot stay out of bankrupcy or revise the business model to make a profit if they choose chapter11, then AA needs to go out of business also! Creditors and employees can only prop up a loser for so long.

[post="172478"][/post]​

Don’t worry, you all will just have to take ‘another’ pay cut and eject your pensions to be ‘competitive’. We are all in a race to the bottom and the front line employees ‘sacrifice’ will be used as long as we allow it. On one hand the direction is to point at other airlines (currently USAir and UAL) as their saving grace if we would simply ‘die’ to make ‘your’ life easier and secure. AA was adamant in their objection of UAL getting the ATSB loan guaranty and I have no doubt that many AA employees sent letters to their senators/congressmen/political parties to lobby against UAL getting the ATSB Loan guaranty without taking into consideration the ramifications (options) that will follow. Furthermore, many of you (as many UAL employees) sent similar letters in support of the Pension Relief Bill

Congress Can Help Airlines with Pension Relief

Only at this time one might believe that we have been scammed once again.
The ‘Powers That Be’ are not as shallow and ignorant as are we.

The USAir employees do not want to see their company fail any more than I want to see my company fail. 'If' UAL survives, you can be assured that AA will be in BK to take more pay, benefits, and pensions in the not too distant future. Once Pandora’s Box has been opened, it’s almost impossible to get her back inside.

As I said, we are in a race to the bottom and we will all be losers if we continue to capitulate.

Be careful what you wish for, it might come true :mf_boff: !!

JMHO&PO,
B) UT

 

[Flufdriver]

I just read through some postings here on the AA board and I must admit(yes I'am a 21 year employee of U) and I can't believe the heartless, selfish, seld centered comments about how U should die. Yes there is to many airplanes in the sky, but I would have a hard time wishing anyone to lose the job and providing for there families. Put your life in our situation...would you want us wishing you would lose your job. There is a huge problem in this industry and we are all trying to survive. Representing your carrier on this board by hoping we all lose our jobs and worrying about how we will pull down the industry is pathetic. U isn't pulling it down...it started years ago when the government let anyone start an airline....and the "BoZo's in the White House now continue to let it happen. Oh I forgot AA is in Texas and so is the so called prez!!!! All said...I still wouldn't want you or your co-workers to lose your job for any reason....thanks for you AA support. I have a relative that works for AA and all she has said about the culture there sounds true. I think you should think about why this industry is failing rather then hoping U goes bye-bye...I think it's called LCC...$49.00 R/T fares...we are simply trying to survive...we all can't work for the almighty AA...watch what DAL going to go through here shortly...AA is NOT immune. The industry is transforming itself. Look who is sucessful..Walmart, Target...price driven!
Anyway, nice to know our industry brothers are hoping for our continued survival in this mess we call the "Airline" Industry!! I hope your never in this mess like we are..if you do, I'll NEVER hope AA goes away and you lose your job to save mine!

For those at AA that don't think this self-centered way...We at U thank you!!!

PHL Flufdriver