UA/US Seniority, what if

[MCI transplant]

MCI Transplant;
The difference between the AA/TWA merger, and UAL/US is that they are both under the housing of the same union. In the Unions (AFA) Constitutional and By-Laws, it clearly states that any AFA members airline being bought out by another AFA members airline would keep and maintain their full senority. That's right, 100%. It all goes back to other mergers that have happened in the past and was designed to protect the senority of smaller carriers being gobbled up by larger ones. The issue between UA/US is that they are a fairly senior group, and larger than what this claus in the by-laws was set up for.
I look at it this way. If my carrier was being bought out by another carrier, what would I consider fair. It is a question that I really have thought about. Fair to me, is not 100% bidding seniorty. Fair to me, is 50% of bidding/company senority but 100% vacation and pass travel. Think about it, 100% senority across the board. If there was to be another furlough, and or people were being let go due to an overage, do you think it really fair to the flight atendants who chose to be with UA and not US? Is that really fair to the flight attendants whose company is buying the other one out? I must honestly say, not at all. If someone does not agree with this, then you are one of those me me me me type of people that firstamendment was referring to. Same thing, different situation. If this merger does happen, and nothing has been done to protect the flight attendants at UA, then I can only speculate that it will be very ugly for both flight attendant groups, and I mean both, because there will be a clear distinction between the two in regards to the kind file numbers they will have. h34r:

<_< Trolleydolly----I hope it would work that way for you! We thought it would also! But today there are no former TWA F/A flying for AA! None! When we were in BK, AA demamded we wave our scope clouses from our contract, or they would move to have our total contract thrown out by the BK judge! We thought we were protected by Aligany/ Mohawk! It didn't happen!

 

[MCI transplant]

Nothing!
Look at your situation. Without AA buying you guys you were on the path to no job at all. This would have meant going to another airline and starting at the bottom.
At least by your group going to the bottom of AA's seniority list you still had your old seniority status between your peers. Why should AA employees suffer any loss when you chose who you wanted to work for way back when. It could have been Eal.

Look at the situation at Ual buying U for 60 a share.
Employees at Ual gave up wages for 6 years, could not invest in a 401k and gave up work rules so Ual could build a huge profit, which then was going to purchase U and screw Ual employees out of seniority. I don't think so. U employees think we were not being fair. I would have said this: If all U employees gave Ual employees the 60,000 each, they had invested in ESOP stock, you could all intrergrate into the seniority list.
I think there would have been a lot more squealing then.

As I said before, you choose the company, not the union.
Looks like the luckiest employees hired on with Luv.

:angry: Atabuy---- It's commen knownledge here that TWA was daliberatlly taken into bankrupcy to get reed of Uncle Carl and his "Karabu" Company that was taking an est. $ 200,M @ year off our bottom line! Could we have survived on our own? Nobody can say! Do'es a company give it's emploees $100.00 bonus for on time performance a month before going into BK? I don't think so! Would it have been better for TWA to just go under? Ask any out of work former TWA F/A our Crew member! Now out of work!

 

[atabuy]

mad.gif Atabuy---- It's commen knownledge here that TWA was daliberatlly taken into bankrupcy to get reed of Uncle Carl and his "Karabu" Company that was taking an est. $ 200,M @ year off our bottom line! Could we have survived on our own? Nobody can say! Do'es a company give it's emploees $100.00 bonus for on time performance a month before going into BK? I don't think so! Would it have been better for TWA to just go under? Ask any out of work former TWA F/A our Crew member! Now out of work!

MCI,
You were all a victim of bad luck and timing. As were the rest of us in the airline business.
Everyone uses conspiracies to justify their postition. Common knowledge or just heresay are the same thing sometimes. Unless you can prove that, you have nothing to stand on.

Again I will say that sometimes it is plain luck as to who we work for and what companies don't survive.
I understand how you feel about the bottom of the pile, but if you can take a wider view of the situation, if it wasn't TWA employees out the door, it would have been AA employees who chose the right airline to work for.

So if you weren't screwed, some AA employee would have been. I think they would have more reason to be upset than you guys.

I am just an outside observer who thinks TWA employees at least had a chance for a job with seniority staying the same within their group.

If you want to direct anger, go find Binladen and Saddam. They have more to do with your situation than AA employees.

I mean no ill will here. That is just how I see the fairest outcome to seniority intergration.

I wish you well in a new career. Maybe it will be the best thing to happen to you. Time will tell.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI,
You were all a victim of bad luck and timing. As were the rest of us in the airline business.
Everyone uses conspiracies to justify their postition. Common knowledge or just heresay are the same thing sometimes. Unless you can prove that, you have nothing to stand on.

Again I will say that sometimes it is plain luck as to who we work for and what companies don't survive.
I understand how you feel about the bottom of the pile, but if you can take a wider view of the situation, if it wasn't TWA employees out the door, it would have been AA employees who chose the right airline to work for.

So if you weren't screwed, some AA employee would have been. I think they would have more reason to be upset than you guys.

I am just an outside observer who thinks TWA employees at least had a chance for a job with seniority staying the same within their group.

If you want to direct anger, go find Binladen and Saddam. They have more to do with your situation than AA employees.

I mean no ill will here. That is just how I see the fairest outcome to seniority intergration.

I wish you well in a new career. Maybe it will be the best thing to happen to you. Time will tell.

<_< Atabuy----I feel your being a little nieve ! But everyone has his opinion! I was trying to give you one viewpoint! If it happens, good luck to all!!!!!!!! BEEN THERE! DONE THAT! IT'S NO FUN! :down:

 

[FA Mikey]

Would it have been better for TWA to just go under? Ask any out of work former TWA F/A our Crew member! Now out of work!

We could also ask the thousands of former TW employees, who are currently working at AA

 

[MCI transplant]

We could also ask the thousands of former TW employees, who are currently working at AA

:angry: Fewer of us every day! At purchase there were 20,000 TWA emploees! Today there is fewer than 7,000! That's before the STL cut back, or "RIF"! What did they promise Congress to get approval for the purchase? Oh yea! To treat us "FAIRLY"!!!!!!!! :down:

 

[Bear96]

Hey AA/TW folks,

I think there are already many many many (MANY) threads about the TW/AA seniority issues. This thread is about UA/US. And we have already been put on notice that this will be closed if it isn't kept civil. If you only have comments about the specifics of the AA/TW situation, could you please keep it on the AA board and stay on topic here so this thread doesn't get shut down.

 

[MCI transplant]

Hey AA/TW folks,

I think there are already many many many (MANY) threads about the TW/AA seniority issues. This thread is about UA/US. And we have already been put on notice that this will be closed if it isn't kept civil. If you only have comments about the specifics of the AA/TW situation, could you please keep it on the AA board and stay on topic here so this thread doesn't get shut down.

:huh: Bear, your totally correct! Again, If it happens, good luck to all! And good-by!!!!!