Pilots dislike US Airways merger

[ClueByFour]

If not then let de-certification of ALPA East and ALPA West happen, the AWA MEC begin Section VI negotiations, probably mediation, and potentially a 30-day cooling off period and strike with about 3,100 pilots represented by another union (probably the Teamsters) who with their lower cost contract could encourage "whip saw".

Inaccurate and impossible pipe dreams make for good weekend reading.

You cannot (and will not) decertify ALPA on the HP property. Take it to the bank. Much like your prognostications about what Nicolau would do, this one is equally incorrect and extremely misleading.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Who's the East Handler On Call this weekend? The deleted by moderator got out and is running loose through cyberspace. Whoever has the watch, let's get him under control, ok? Thanks.

 

[Phoenix]

thats an excellent question USA320. If fences and shared growth were the such a good idea, why was this not your position going into arbitration?

Maybe it was because 320 wasn't in a position to make that happen.

But frankly what was or wasn't done is pointless. What is, is.

If fences are a way past the problem then they are. If not they aren't. Focusing on the past won't solve the problem of today.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Phoenix,

Phoenix said: "Focusing on the past won't solve the problem of today."

USA320Pilot comments: Good point. There is nothing any of us can do about the past, but there is a lot we can do about the future.

By the way, the bottom line is this. The US Airways pilots can de-certify ALPA, the US Airways pilots can put another union in position to represent them, the US Airways pilots can not agree to a new joint contract, and the US Airways pilots can live under LOA 93 until its amendable date and then many years beyond.

During this period the US Airways pilots can get meaningful pay raises due to attrition based career advancement of about $25,000 per year, the US Airways pilots can keep its current scheduling system (major quality of life issue), the US Airways pilots can continue to see hundreds of recalls per year, and the US Airways pilots can obtain $70 million in bonus payments per LOA 93.

In the meantime, the AWA pilots will not be able to fly current widebody's, the AWA pilots will not be able to fly the EMB-190, the AWA pilots will not be able to integrate per the Nicolau Award, the AWA pilots will not receive any more pay raises per their contract, the AWA pilots will have to enter into Section VI negotiations (that took 4 years to get a deal last time), and the AWA pilots will have major stagnation due to the Transition Agreement with about 50 pilots retiring per year.

Guess what. There is nothing the Company or the America West pilots can do about the US Airways pilot contract rights listed above.

Let the "whip saw" begin (unless a solution is found to the Nicolau Award)!

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. From the NMB: Representation - When a union or an individual seeks to represent a specific group of employees (craft-or-class under the RLA) for the purpose of negotiating as a group on wages, hours, benefits, and working conditions (collective bargaining), the NMB investigates the case. The NMB examines the jurisdiction of the carrier under the RLA; the appropriate carrier and craft-or-class designation; the eligibility of voters; and whether an election is justified. If an election is authorized, the NMB conducts the election and certifies the winning union or individual to represent the group. Additionally, the NMB ensures that the representation process occurs without interference, influence or coercion. See the NMB Representation Manual for more information.

Click here for more information.

 

[N924PS]

Very few East Pilots will "capture" that additional $25K you speak. A few near your lofty number, perhaps.

Most will be relegated to LOA 93 bankruptcy wages and work rules. Two years? Five Years? I don't believe 50% plus 1 of the East pilots will tolerate that scenario.

Once again the unique demographics of an aged pilot group with no place else to go will rear its ugly head.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Very few East Pilots will "capture" that additional $25K you speak. A few near your lofty number, perhaps.

Remember - the only one that matters is the one at that "lofty" number.....

Jim

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

What will decertifying ALPA do for you? It won't erase the past. It won't change the award! It will guarantee a merged list as soon as East is in breach of contract with the West, you know that document signed called a TA. Do you think decertifying ALPA will magically make any of this go away. If so, send some of that sh!t your smoking my way. How convenient that would be to just tear up agreements and say I'm not going to pay, so there. The full force of ALPA will go after your group and who will defend you? Teamsters? In house Union? LOL, GMAFB, your dues will be 10% of your salary and assessments from attorney fees will easily reach $2000/pilot for lord knows how long. Yea, you got a good plan there Chipster. This is the kind of reckless behavior that will destroy the east pilots.

We have a few yahoos on the West property that I can't stand either, but this guy sets a new standard for morons everywhere.

I believe the Nicolau Award can stand and be implemented; however, for this to occur within the next 10 year's there must be agreed upon fences, and then shared growth, shared scope protections, and a new joint contract.

If not then let de-certification of ALPA East and ALPA West happen, the AWA MEC begin Section VI negotiations, probably mediation, and potentially a 30-day cooling off period and strike with about 3,100 pilots represented by another union (probably the Teamsters) who with their lower cost contract could encourage "whip saw".

Meanwhile, the East piltos will maintain all of the growth benefits of their attrition and potential "whip sawing".

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[TechBoy]

Guess what. There is nothing the Company or the America West pilots can do about the US Airways pilot contract rights listed above.

Let the "whip saw" begin (unless a solution is found to the Nicolau Award)!

Oh, don't worry, A320. Your junior pilots will sell you out the way the you sold them out during bankruptcy. Those retirements that you are counting on will be your own undoing. As you creep up the seniority ladder, more and more furloughees will be called back. These are the furloughees that will never see the top of the list (with or without Nicolau) and they have a huge incentive to get a new contract. At some point, they will be the majority. And then they will throw you under the bus.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

The solution is to live up to your commitments and get a joint contract.

Doug Parker will do nothing because he knows the award was fair, and more importantly, he can't. Do any of you remember all of those meetings with Parker early on in the merger? What was the one big question BOTH sides were asking him? Yes, seniority and how to merge the pilot groups. And do you remember what he said to both groups ? (the meetings were taped and there are video archives). Parker told both sides he thought ratios was the fair way to integrate the pilots. C'mon, admit it, I'm sure you attended at least one of them. Don't believe me, just ask corp comm for the archives. Or they still may be on theHub.

Pilots dislike US Airways merger

US Airways CEO Doug Parker was in Charlotte Thursday morning. He worries the pilots' unrest could hurt airline performance. "I hope it gets worked out and I will do everything we can to get it worked out," said Parker.

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. The solution is fences, shared growth, shared scope protections, and a new joint contract, which I believe would calm not only Doug Parker's but everybody's worries that "the pilots' unrest could hurt airline performance."

 

[hp_fa]

Phoenix,

Phoenix said: "Focusing on the past won't solve the problem of today."

USA320Pilot comments: Good point. There is nothing any of us can do about the past, but there is a lot we can do about the future.

By the way, the bottom line is this. The US Airways pilots can de-certify ALPA, the US Airways pilots can put another union in position to represent them, the US Airways pilots can not agree to a new joint contract, and the US Airways pilots can live under LOA 93 until its amendable date and then many years beyond.

Does any dining get done with the whining, USA320Pilot? The RC4, Nicolau, those evil AWA pilots, ad nasueum. Didn't you once write a letter a few years ago to a newspaper decrying what your own union was doing? I'd say run for office but oops, you did that too.

Are you now going to whine to a moderator that this is a personal attack? Well, it's just based on the record and I'll live with that.

 

[700UW]

Once again there are NO PROCEDURES under the RLA and the NMB to decertify.

How many times do you have to be explained that?

Both pilots groups are treated as one under the NMB and the SCS ruling.

You can only call for an election between two unions or more if enough cards are signed, to maintain union representation you need 50%+1 to vote yes. If that number is not reached you are non-union, no CBA and an employee at will.

And the procedures under the NMB are differant for an unorganized group to seek representation and a currently organized group to CHANGE representation as the RLA and the NMB have no procedures or process to decetify, very similar but the card total percentage are differant. Better go back and reread as you did not comprehend the process at all.

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[Bear96]

Once again there are NO PROCEDURES under the RLA and the NMB to decertify.

As a point of law, that's not quite true.

Yes, there is no explicit method set out in the RLA itself to "decertify" as there is under the NLRA.

However, it is possible for employees unionized under the RLA to get rid of a union if they so desire. (It is not an easy or straightforward process, but it can be done.) See Russell v. Nat'l Mediation Bd., 714 F.2d 1332 (5th Cir. 1983).

 

[700UW]

There is only one way for this to happen under the RLA.

Get enough cards between two or more unions to call for an election, if 50%+1 total do not vote yes then you are decertified and have no representation.

That is the only way, unlike the NRLA which contains specific procedures to decertify.

Basically it is an end around.

 

[Bear96]

You clearly did not read the case I kindly cited for you.

 

[700UW]

Don't have too, the events outlined are from the NMB Representational Manual and the RLA.