Not my fight, but..................
Had it not been for the employees of UAL helping their company through the ESOP, who knows what would have happened. They put their money where their mouth were and said yes, this is my company, I wish for it to prosper.
Now, we are led to believe this was a bad thing, yet part of the agreement between U and the employees is shares, I believe a 20 percent stake. Considering the give back from the employees of U, this stake is probably to little.
So why is it good in U's case, but not in the case of UAL??
Secondly, speaking of greedy employees, believe the Summer of 2000 is used as an example. U's employees agreed to parity plus one, on paper perhaps doable, but in reality, it raised cost per employee to an extreme level. Partly due to ALPA ILC concept, which i this case, although it was based on comparing a few carriers, raised the level of compensation to, I believe, 278K a year for a U A330 pilot. Comparing U to AMR would seem to indicate a rather large disparity, particularily since AMR is the world largest airline and was profitable, where as U was not, at the time!
I do not recall the U pilots saying that it was simply to rich a contract and that they were willing to consider less than parity plus one.
Now once again, we are hearing the thought that UAL needs U, more than vice versa. U certainly has reduced their losses through concessions, but it may not be enough, considering the continued slow rise, if any, in travel. UAL, and not to mention the other major carriers, still stand to gain more at the failure of U. AMR certainly seem to act like the shark smelling blood, with their latest invention the East Coast Shuttle. Perhaps somewhat aimed at DAL, but squarely aimed at U. U, as it stands, is worth more in parts, than as a whole. Where as I will not restart the argument of TWA and AMR, suffice to say, it has not been the money maker AMR expected it to be, nor has it appreciably changed the power structure within the majors, although AMR gets to proclaim themseves Worlds Largest Airline, a claim that they no doubt would love to trade for a decent profit.
UAL faces some serious problems in the months to come, but like someone else said, perhaps the best thing to do, would be to focus on internal affairs, before venturing out into Magic Bullet territory.
Since emotions do tend to get heated, the above is not intended to chastise anyone, nor start a flame war. In this line of work, one tends to have good friends at all airlines. It is merely meant to further the discussion and for me to gain more knowledge.
Had it not been for the employees of UAL helping their company through the ESOP, who knows what would have happened. They put their money where their mouth were and said yes, this is my company, I wish for it to prosper.
Now, we are led to believe this was a bad thing, yet part of the agreement between U and the employees is shares, I believe a 20 percent stake. Considering the give back from the employees of U, this stake is probably to little.
So why is it good in U's case, but not in the case of UAL??
Secondly, speaking of greedy employees, believe the Summer of 2000 is used as an example. U's employees agreed to parity plus one, on paper perhaps doable, but in reality, it raised cost per employee to an extreme level. Partly due to ALPA ILC concept, which i this case, although it was based on comparing a few carriers, raised the level of compensation to, I believe, 278K a year for a U A330 pilot. Comparing U to AMR would seem to indicate a rather large disparity, particularily since AMR is the world largest airline and was profitable, where as U was not, at the time!
I do not recall the U pilots saying that it was simply to rich a contract and that they were willing to consider less than parity plus one.
Now once again, we are hearing the thought that UAL needs U, more than vice versa. U certainly has reduced their losses through concessions, but it may not be enough, considering the continued slow rise, if any, in travel. UAL, and not to mention the other major carriers, still stand to gain more at the failure of U. AMR certainly seem to act like the shark smelling blood, with their latest invention the East Coast Shuttle. Perhaps somewhat aimed at DAL, but squarely aimed at U. U, as it stands, is worth more in parts, than as a whole. Where as I will not restart the argument of TWA and AMR, suffice to say, it has not been the money maker AMR expected it to be, nor has it appreciably changed the power structure within the majors, although AMR gets to proclaim themseves Worlds Largest Airline, a claim that they no doubt would love to trade for a decent profit.
UAL faces some serious problems in the months to come, but like someone else said, perhaps the best thing to do, would be to focus on internal affairs, before venturing out into Magic Bullet territory.
Since emotions do tend to get heated, the above is not intended to chastise anyone, nor start a flame war. In this line of work, one tends to have good friends at all airlines. It is merely meant to further the discussion and for me to gain more knowledge.
25 PM jj wrote: 
47 PM argentomaranello wrote: 
