UA + CO

[Borescope]

If Co and UA did "merge", it would be intersting to see how the flight crews would interact. I've heard from a lot of my CO colleagues(sp) that UA crews would refuse to ride on hotel vans or the employee bus with CAL crews after the 83 strike. I myself am a stepchild of CO (PEX), so this was before my time, and though there are a handful of "opportunists" in inflight and a bunch of them in IAH (pilots) :down: , most CO people are as good and bad as any other group. Many of the "old" CO people really resent being categorized as scabs because of what Lorenzo did to that once great airline.Many stayed out on strike for as long as possible. I wonder if the UA people would be able to put away their differences to make a merger work?

UA has their fair share of scabs, also. They could merge and become one big scab.

 

[iflyjetz]

If Co and UA did "merge", it would be intersting to see how the flight crews would interact. I've heard from a lot of my CO colleagues(sp) that UA crews would refuse to ride on hotel vans or the employee bus with CAL crews after the 83 strike. I myself am a stepchild of CO (PEX), so this was before my time, and though there are a handful of "opportunists" in inflight and a bunch of them in IAH (pilots) :down: , most CO people are as good and bad as any other group. Many of the "old" CO people really resent being categorized as scabs because of what Lorenzo did to that once great airline.Many stayed out on strike for as long as possible. I wonder if the UA people would be able to put away their differences to make a merger work?

I don't think that any scab factor would be that great; as borescope mentioned, UAL has it's fair share of scabs.
No, it's just that airline mergers in general do not work. At least for the merged companies. As a recent example, look at AMR and TWA. That was a very expensive merger for AMR, yet produced very little positive results. The jury is still out on AWA and UAIR; we'll have to see what happens there.
It wouldn't matter if there were zero scabs at either airline; there would still be bad blood between the rank and file.

 

[Borescope]

It wouldn't matter if there were zero scabs at either airline; there would still be bad blood between the rank and file.

This is true with any airline merger. The employees are usually the ones who are taking it in the shorts. They look at it totally different than management does. Even with more flying and the probability that most employees would stay in their current bases, it's that all important senority number that weighs the heaviest during any merger. No one wants to give up even 1 number.

 

[featheroleather]

You know what they say."It aint a good merger unless everyone is pissed".It took years at CAL to get over their merger/acquisitions with the pilots and fa's from TI,FL,NYAIR and PEX.Frank was brilliant enough to have us at each others throats for a long time.Divide and Conquer. I just hope if CO and UA do "merge", it won't be ugly.

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

I believe that most airline employees see this as the wave of the future and will treat each other with more respect than has happened in the past. I also believe that everyone saw what happened over at AA/TWA and won't allow a staple like that one again either.

This potential merger would make UAL/CAL a powerhouse that would be very difficult for any others to compete against.

 

[767jetz]

jetz: is this like a hobbie? engaging morons on this board? it just craps all over a post.

can't you just ignore these people and move on?

Just calling Bulscu out on a hunch.

And yes, it sort of is a hobbie. There's not much else to do on this board, now that UA is back on it's feet.

I find this whole UA/CO discussion as having more entertainment value than anything else.

 

[featheroleather]

My neighbors brother-in-law spoke to his doctor who was treating his mechanic whose sister is a flight attendant who saw Bethune in Chicago last year, so it must be true!

 

[iflyjetz]

I believe that most airline employees see this as the wave of the future and will treat each other with more respect than has happened in the past. I also believe that everyone saw what happened over at AA/TWA and won't allow a staple like that one again either.

This potential merger would make UAL/CAL a powerhouse that would be very difficult for any others to compete against.

I respectfully disagree with your entire post.
Let's see how the AWA/UAIR merge goes; I don't think that it will be very pretty.

 

[JAMAKE1]

I propose that the Star Alliance Members kick USAirways out and sign a comprehensive agreement with Continental that includes a CO-UA code share and coordination of flight schedules, with CO becoming a full-fledged member in the Star Alliance network. This would fill the gaps in both airlines' respective route networks and provide the requisite synergies of a combined entity, but without all of the downsides of an outright merger/acquisition. I would venture to guess that a CO-UA combination would provide more value to UA than the current UA-US code-share.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

I propose that the Star Alliance Members kick USAirways out and sign a comprehensive agreement with Continental that includes a CO-UA code share and coordination of flight schedules, with CO becoming a full-fledged member in the Star Alliance network. This would fill the gaps in both airlines' respective route networks and provide the requisite synergies of a combined entity, but without all of the downsides of an outright merger/acquisition. I would venture to guess that a CO-UA combination would provide more value to UA than the current UA-US code-share.

I agree with your sentiment, but not necessarily your reason. I think the value of a code share for UAL might be better with LCC because of the number of destinations not served by UAL's network, but the value of a CO hook up would be in the FF program consolidation, frequency and business fare market share and 'synergies' from merger. A CO hook up would provide breadth to two additional SUPER MAJOR markets, but I'm not sure it would add as much connectivity to small markets that the LCC code share does. Well, I guess I don't disagree with you because you don't say "A UAL code share with Co would be much more valuable to UAL than it is with LCC."

Your statement is reasonable and perhaps true.

 

[LGBflyer]

Feather,

It's been 23 years, I'm sure most have gotten over it. :down:

Those that remember are probably close to death or retirement anyway. Don't forget the old saying 'two sides to every story'. Don't believe for a second that all CO crews were well behaved and cordial and that all UA crews were rude.

ehh i dont know about that....from what my dad has told me, some UAL pilots wont let known CAL scabs jumpset on their aircraft....i dont know if its true, but it came from a CAL pilot who has been around a while...

 

[FA4UA]

Whether we're talking about UA and CO merging or SBC and AT&T merger- the real question should be- will the merged firm offer greater profits and be a long term survivor in a commoditized marketplace?

Will the companies be stronger together or apart?

I think most will agree there is too many ASM's in the US right now, a merger will pull some down, as well as enhance route structures and drive a revenue premium with less ASM's out there. Adding another airline to an alliance wouldn't solve the problem of too many ASM's, whether we're speaking about CO or any other carrier.

The focus should be on long term viability and profits which lends to everyone's job security in the long run.

Just my two cents...

FA4UA

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

ehh i dont know about that....from what my dad has told me, some UAL pilots wont let known CAL scabs jumpset on their aircraft....i dont know if its true, but it came from a CAL pilot who has been around a while...

Who cares if ANYONE ever lets them jumpseat. If he's a scab then he shouldn't be jumpseating. Plain and simple.


Most people don't have the time nor inclination to look up the scab lists. Been way too long since the last strikes, but if he knows that a particular guy is one, then of course the guy should figure out a new way to where he's going.

Is you Dad a scab???

 

[Richard]

Keep this on the topic of UA and CO. It's not about jump seats or scabs vs. unions.

Thank you.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Neither UA or CO wants to be the acquired. Kind of hard to have a consensual merger when no one wants to give up their identity. One or the other will have to be knocked down quite a bit in order for mgmt to be willing to consider being acquired.

And of course the owners of the company have to be convinced they will get more from the company by being acquired. CO's management has been able time and time again to convince its board that it is more valuable to them as an ongoing entity than if it was acquired. I don't think they will let up anytime soon.

A UA/CO merger is something for the chat boards but won't happen in reality.