TWU vs. AMP Debate Comments

[High Speed Steel]

The thing I find so funny with Ken is his disdain for only the TWU supportive posters who post under an alias and his attempts to tag them as non-credible....Hey Ken, what about aapitbull, 1AA, Hopeful, to list a few who post under alias'... Are their posts credible?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The thing I find so funny with Ken is his disdain for only the TWU supportive posters who post under an alias and his attempts to tag them as non-credible....Hey Ken, what about aapitbull, 1AA, Hopeful, to list a few who post under alias'... Are their posts credible?

Considering I know these indiviuals... yes. By the way. When these people post they post facts not lies and half truths. Care to step into the light? Didn't think so.

 

[CIO]

cio,

My not going has nothing to do with being "bothered". As an E-Board member this was my first opportunity to go and another Board Member went in my place. I got a full report on how UNdemocratic the twu national convention is. By the way, when people vote on an issue I figured that after all the ballots/hands for or against were counted the simple majority for yes or no ruled the day and the next issue was brought up to be voted on. Then why do they vote SEVERAL times on the same issue at the convention?

As for your comment "just the lowly bus drivers and casino dealers you deride." these are your words not mine. You see, this is the typical twu defense for their unaccountable, undemocratic ways... attack someone from behind an alias and insinuate negative comments. Post where I have EVER described bus drivers, casino dealers, bus mechanics, maintenance of way technicians, electricians, carpenters and millwrights, railroad mechanics, sheet metal workers, dispatchers, and flight attendants as "lowly". Otherwise you are a coward and liar. Yes, you read this right. You have written something I NEVER said, claimed or alluded to. What's that? Oh, another 5 AMP cards signed.

I know these are good people, I never said otherwise. AGAIN you insinuate. You and the rest of the few twu faithful alias posting officers just can not grasp the concept of my craft and class wanting a democratic craft union. The point I tried to get across to you, (yes, I know, I know you can NOT read and comprehend but I tried anyway), is that AMP wishes to represent those in our craft and class at AA. The workgroups that the twu represents I wish them the best of luck. As I do all union people. The simple fact remains that the twu DOES NOT give me a democratic, accountable system for protecting and promoting my craft and class. When AMP is certified we will behave like a real union and work with other unions.

The only people who are a waste of time are those who promote/prop up an undemocratic, unaccountable union pretending that they are just that and all from behind the wall of secrecy.

Ken,

The answer to the Question I asked : Under the Amp constitution is everyone eligible to recall officers? The correct answer is no!

Section 7 Amp Constitution; Apprentice and inactive members shall enjoy all the benefits of active membership except the privileges of voting,

Under Amp as you say! The constitution references more than one group they wish to represent.

AMP Constitution: Any person of lawful age and of good moral character who is employed in the Mechanic and Related or Stores Craft and Class at American Airlines, Inc.,

Ken do you just spout off? No wonder as I understand it, Many at your local members were glad you resigned!!!!

Here is your comment: (I have not attended any twu convention. Why waste my time?) Since you were an officer at the time, I believe it is in the best interest of the members for you to attend, I presume you told the company the same thing when you were representing the members to the best of your abilty? Or was it just wasting your Time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Is it safe to say? You would do the same depending on what hat you are wearing this week? AMFA,TWU or AMP? You really have no business representing anyone?

In Solidarity
CIO

 

[Hopeful]

The thing I find so funny with Ken is his disdain for only the TWU supportive posters who post under an alias and his attempts to tag them as non-credible....Hey Ken, what about aapitbull, 1AA, Hopeful, to list a few who post under alias'... Are their posts credible?

What does credible have to do with anything? This is a forum of opinions. Facts come in to play when news articles and other documentation get posted as well.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Facts are meaningless - you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! Homer Simpson..................

 

[Hopeful]

Facts are meaningless - you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! Homer Simpson..................

So If I posted a copy of the Decaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, or the US Constitution.....?????????????

 

[High Speed Steel]

What does credible have to do with anything? This is a forum of opinions. Facts come in to play when news articles and other documentation get posted as well.

Credibility has everything to do with it....Remember this is the TWU vs. AMP debate comment thread

 

[Hopeful]

Credibility has everything to do with it....Remember this is the TWU vs. AMP debate comment thread

I'm sorry, I was unable to combine the words credibility and TWU in the same post.
AMP may be unproven, abstract entity but the TWU has proven itself to be a unit of AMR helping deliver its members into the AA fold.

Tell me HSS, how has the current, traditional STRENGTH IN NUMBERS union philosophy worked for us so far?

 

[KUKUY]

kukuy,

Appropriate alias considering you find democracy and accountability to be the "boogie man" in your world. The attempt of the twu stools to connect AMFA to AMP is hilarious.

Still can't defend that constitution of yours? There is no splintering of the unions at AA. My craft and class will remain in a union but in a craft, democratic union. The twu will still represent the Ramp. So where is the splintering? Why must my craft and class remain with the twu if we do not want to? Are you afraid of an election between AMP and the twu? If there is any splintering or division at AA it is being devised by the company and peddled by the twu. Care to explain the colored flyer inserted in my ballot urging me to vote yes on a concessionary t/a?

The twu has been splintering my craft and class at AA. Care to explain srp/osm and future sma positions?

GO AMP! (Boo!!)

All you have to do is state that AMFA is not supporting this drive with legal, financial or any other logistical support. Simple, no strings attached and no need to make excuses or metaphors is AMFA the entity backing this drive? YES or NO. And you don’t even have to pick up phone. As I have asked before, what item in the flyer was a lie? You point it out. You are the one who wants to break away. The onus is you to make the case that the TWU was swaying the vote. Prove your point. In 1986 you started out as an A scale mechanic. That has to be true because you don’t want anything to do with SRP/OSM or SMA positions. You have to have started American as an A scale mechanic. On a picket line for AMFA, at the waning stages of the NWA strike, I saw one lone mechanic marching the line, held his AMFA on Strike sign high, I could see his defiance, but he was alone. He believed the rhetoric of militancy and the power of skill over numbers(solidarity). AMFA left him and many others like him disillusioned with no hope of ever being the beneficiary of the undeliverable promises foolishly made by AMFA. Prove how powerful AMP could be and prove how achievable the promises of AMP.

 

[aapitbull]

All you have to do is state that AMFA is not supporting this drive with legal, financial or any other logistical support. Simple, no strings attached and no need to make excuses or metaphors is AMFA the entity backing this drive? YES or NO. And you don’t even have to pick up phone. As I have asked before, what item in the flyer was a lie? You point it out. You are the one who wants to break away. The onus is you to make the case that the TWU was swaying the vote. Prove your point. In 1986 you started out as an A scale mechanic. That has to be true because you don’t want anything to do with SRP/OSM or SMA positions. You have to have started American as an A scale mechanic. On a picket line for AMFA, at the waning stages of the NWA strike, I saw one lone mechanic marching the line, held his AMFA on Strike sign high, I could see his defiance, but he was alone. He believed the rhetoric of militancy and the power of skill over numbers(solidarity). AMFA left him and many others like him disillusioned with no hope of ever being the beneficiary of the undeliverable promises foolishly made by AMFA. Prove how powerful AMP could be and prove how achievable the promises of AMP.

I have posted this before but here goes AMFA has nothing to do with AMP zero nill they are not supporting in anyway the only thing we have recieved from AMFA was a E-mail wishing us the best of luck.

Now are you prepared to join me in calling on all members to sign cards and lets vote, you said you do not fear a vote if this is true the lets get it over with and move on.

 

[lineguy43]

From 10,000 members to 2,700 members, is the path you promote. This is AMFA’s history. That cannot be denied. There is no logic that can rationalize that as sane. Recognize that the IAM does have the political power and solidarity to thwart a union busting drive. On the contrary, AMFA is doing the company’s union busting work by attempting to splinter the union at AA. AMFA didn’t have the power to keep the members it had at UA and other companies. 73% of the membership gone but this is the philosophy you promote. The La Guardia Act is what has to be reinstated so the honoring of picket lines is not denied because of some court injunction.

The IAM has the ability to thwart a union busting drive? Well I can tell you from experience that no ailrine would attempt to bust the IAM simply because they are a COMPANY LAPDOG UNION as is the TWU. ..NW I believe knew all along they were going to merge with DL and AMFA was no way going to be a part of it..AMFA was too militant, even without the merger I believe NW would have tried to get rid of AMFA anyway. NW did not like transparency like outsiders sitting in on negotiations along with a host of other reasons. AMFA had problems and I have no use for them not because we lost the strike but in the fact that AMFA was ok with letting the scabs become members after the strike was over. That was my reason for not having any interest in them anymore.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

cio,

"No wonder as I understand it, Many at your local members were glad you resigned!!!!"

You understand? Like your ability to read and comprehend the written word? that type of understanding? People at my local are glad I resigned? I'm sure the local president is glad. You know something funny cio? "Many" in my local also signed AMP authorization cards.

I know the international is sweating this drive to remove them. With people like you and kukuy and hss defending the undefendable it is a matter of time before there is an election. And this election the twu will not be able to revote when the outcome isn't to their liking.

GO AMP!

 

[CIO]

To Ken,

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ That's what I like about you CIO, you took the high road in that reply to Ken!

 

[Russ Cannon]

To all on this forum that believe that AMP is actually AMFA or that somehow AMFA has something to do with AMP, I took the time to look up the National tel # for AMFA. Please give them a call and ask them for yourselves . (303) 752-2632 I would tell you what they told me, but you wouldn't believe me, so give them a call and hear it from the horses mouth for yourself.

Also i wanted to ask why these folks that are pro TWU in this debate refuse to answer any questions? especially those pertaining to there constitution? Kind of difficult to have a debate if you dont supply any answers ??? Please provide answers so the members that are reading this debate can make an informed decission as to whom they would rather have representing them based on the fact's.

Is it really that hard to answer the questions in this debate or are you worried that if you do answer the members will be signing cards faster than you can pull down AMP flyers of the bulliten boards in Tulsa???? Best regards. RC