TWU.....Transparency Now on Equity Distribution!

[DallasConehead]

The appeal is to make the TWU provide us with the correct numbers. The TWU continues to refute our request for the parameters to the Equity Distribution plan that was implemented in July 2013, particularly the straight time all in payroll rate and aggregate M&R service rate. All they provided us with, was a formula using projected (not actual) numbers.

Well Conehead, you were a Yes voter right? So you must have completely understood what this deal included, care to explain what you voted Yes on?


It's my understanding that Tom Roth came up with the formulas etc. The Committee simply gave input on who should be included in the award, not the formula. IIRC the Equity Committee was formed after ratification of the deal. So like a typical Little/Videtich lapdog you are trying to spin the blame to a Committee that I'm sure you know carries zero authority per the TWU Constitution and was formed after the deal was ratified. This was Little/Videtich's deal, not the Committees.

Bob, the guy asked a simple question. I simply pointed out that Peterson was on the committee, he should know the answer.

Your response is as per your MO, ridicule, deflect call names instead of providing the answer. So much for being a Union Official that serves it membership. So, dont try to fill me up with your BS about all of that, we know who you serve Bob and its YOU. And we know that when your complicit, whether you were hoodwinked or just plain stupid, you always blame someone else.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, the guy asked a simple question. I simply pointed out that Peterson was on the committee, he should know the answer.

 

Anyone that was on the equity distribution committee should have all the information needed, including all the parameters of the formula. So, you only need look to your Local 591 president, whats more, if he is only just now asking for the info from the International after the committee was convened months and months ago, did their work and went home, then there is something seriously wrong with him.

To me it sounds like another case of, it all their fault, not mine.
 
 

Yes the guy asked a simple question, but you did not attempt to answer his question, you used it as a pretext to attack Peterson while hiding behind an alias. 
 
Yes you pointed out that in your opinion Gary should have the info at hand but you went beyond that. So I answered your point, and went beyond that as well. Have you ever heard about people in Glass houses?  Dont cry about when people do to you what you do to others. There's a saying on that as well.
 
So go ahead and throw out what you got. Do I do this for me? Yes, I never claimed that this was a selfless act, I was happy enough being a mechanic for the first 20 years in my career, when the deterioration reached the point where I could no longer just sit on the sidelines I started speaking up, My peers felt that I was able to express what they too felt and asked me to run for a Union position, so I did. But unlike many others I dont whine about how this is a "thankless job" and criticize the very people who put me here. I didnt kiss ass to try and get an International spot so I could do that and not face an election. I still realize that this is a temporary privilege and have pushed to ensure that at any time the members can remove me through recall if they feel that what I'm doing is in conflict with what they want me to do.

 

[AANOTOK]

There is absolutely NO HOPE of keeping any of these threads on topic...NONE!

 

[Bob Owens]

There is absolutely NO HOPE of keeping any of these threads on topic...NONE!

Dont give up so easily, thow out a point to bring it back. Such as;
 
Here is my understanding so people will have something to look at until we recieve a definative answer from Tom Roth.
 
The Equity distribution process is a complicated one, the values of what we will recieve is in a state of flux with certian barriers not to exceed 4.8% of the shares distributed to the unsecured creditors or $330 million, the full value of the claim the International came up with for our claim. This claim does not include the losses we will most certainly incurr as a result of the six year concessionary deal nor does it include losses from the 2003 deal or the hundreds of millions we lost due to the International not pushing for a release after we rejected the 2010 concessionary deal after three years of "negotiations". It is based solely on the claim put together by the International and the people they hired, Negotiation Committee members were not invited to that part of the process. The Equity Committee was formed afterwards to determine eligibility and some other issues the International didnt want to decide but the rest of the deal was crafted before the Committee was even formed. Unlike other creditors we are not getting 100% of what we lost, we may be getting 100% of the much much smaller claim we put in for.
 
While we have been given some information and the formula we have not been given the most critical number that we need to figure out if we recieved the correct number of shares in the initial distribution. We wont get that number-the total number of shares given to unsecured creditors, until after day 120. The only figure thats availble now is the total number of shares given to AA, but that figure is not the number that the 4.8% will be based on. We wont know that number until we know what the price of the stock is on day 120. What we do know is that if the price goes up during this period we will not benefit from this gain, as our award is capped at $330 million, if the price goes down we will be capped at 4.8% of the shares distributed to unsecured creditors, so we could share in the downside, but not the upside because its possible that 4.8% could be less than $330 million. Either way we will either get $330 milion or 4.8% of the shares that were distibuted among the unsecured creditors, whichever is lower.
 
Bottom line, we wont know until we find out were the 72% gets distributed, how much of that goes to unsecured creditors and how much goes elsewhere,  and we wont know that until we know the price of the stock on day 120.
 
Thats my understanding.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

PLEASE, Do Not make this another a TWU vs AMFA topic.

You should pay attention to what you post then as well.
 
You say Sign an AMFA card on every post you make.
 
The equity share and its mistakes to each employee represented by the TWU is being discussed. There is just never ending mistakes by the TWU leadership, so my point is
if that is the case then why are we still paying them to represent us it is time to send them on their way.
 
Do you plan on waiting until then next time and then next time after that to finally get it that the TWU will working with AA since they know NO other way to find a way to screw YOU.
 
Each tread is about how we as TWU employees are being abused, the paint color on the tail, (our pension and pay painted the aircraft ) new aircraft (again my pay check) etc..
If we continue to chat about things we can't change the big picture of cutting out the festering cancer here at AA the TWU will just simply be unattainable.

 

[AANOTOK]

Dont give up so easily, thow out a point to bring it back. Such as;
 
Here is my understanding so people will have something to look at until we recieve a definative answer from Tom Roth.
 
The Equity distribution process is a complicated one, the values of what we will recieve is in a state of flux with certian barriers not to exceed 4.8% of the shares distributed to the unsecured creditors or $330 million, the full value of the claim the International came up with for our claim. This claim does not include the losses we will most certainly incurr as a result of the six year concessionary deal nor does it include losses from the 2003 deal or the hundreds of millions we lost due to the International not pushing for a release after we rejected the 2010 concessionary deal after three years of "negotiations". It is based solely on the claim put together by the International and the people they hired, Negotiation Committee members were not invited to that part of the process. The Equity Committee was formed afterwards to determine eligibility and some other issues the International didnt want to decide but the rest of the deal was crafted before the Committee was even formed. Unlike other creditors we are not getting 100% of what we lost, we may be getting 100% of the much much smaller claim we put in for.
 
While we have been given some information and the formula we have not been given the most critical number that we need to figure out if we recieved the correct number of shares in the initial distribution. We wont get that number-the total number of shares given to unsecured creditors, until after day 120. The only figure thats availble now is the total number of shares given to AA, but that figure is not the number that the 4.8% will be based on. We wont know that number until we know what the price of the stock is on day 120. What we do know is that if the price goes up during this period we will not benefit from this gain, as our award is capped at $330 million, if the price goes down we will be capped at 4.8% of the shares distributed to unsecured creditors, so we could share in the downside, but not the upside because its possible that 4.8% could be less than $330 million. Either way we will either get $330 milion or 4.8% of the shares that were distibuted among the unsecured creditors, whichever is lower.
 
Bottom line, we wont know until we find out were the 72% gets distributed, how much of that goes to unsecured creditors and how much goes elsewhere,  and we wont know that until we know the price of the stock on day 120.
 
Thats my understanding.

All I can say Bob is that the Power Point exhibit and roadshow is completely different from the info that is being passed along now.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Ok, AMFAinMIAMI since you refuse to stay on topic can you explain why you want AMFA? From here I can explain why you can't even get the majority of your fellow mechanics in MIA to sign cards. Simple, credibility-you have none. You may believe that you are a devoted advocate for change but in reality what makes you so different from what you want replaced? You obviously have zero respect for the input or opinions of others. You have a fellow advocate from AMFA asking to stay on topic and instead attack him. You obviously don't care about democracy and will hijack any discussion to pound out that we need AMFA, regardless of how your actions damage the cause to claim to are fighting for. You claim that all other discussions are pointless, well isn't that your opinion? If you feel these discussions are pointless then why not just skip them and start your own thread? This equity distribution involves people who are not mechanics and have no stake in the AMFA vs TWU debate, are you saying that they should not be free to discuss the Equity distribution without interference from you? Is that your version of Democracy?

 

[1AA]

You should pay attention to what you post then as well.
 
You say Sign an AMFA card on every post you make.
 

That is my signature. It does not reflect on the responses I make in the particular topic that I am replying too. Do I have to explain what a signature is vs a reply to a topic at hand?  Oh I already did. Please lets not drift from this topic and lets not get into a tif over it. Thanks, Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
 
I have been wondering why the other unions have their formulas available to them and the TWU did not make them available for each member to verify their amount or shares entitled too. Why is the TWU so difficult to disclose this information that the APA and APFA did so easily? Why is Peterson deflecting the question or the issue to the International? We have a new international body in place and Phat Don and Gless are no longer in positions to answer. They might have the answers but I am sure they will not let us know. I am sure it is not that complicated since the first pay out was made. They had to use some formula to figure out the first 52%. So what did they use to come up with my 52% distribution? What will be the remaining 48%? Same formula I guess. So what is it?

 

[DallasConehead]

Yes the guy asked a simple question, but you did not attempt to answer his question, you used it as a pretext to attack Peterson while hiding behind an alias. 
 
Yes you pointed out that in your opinion Gary should have the info at hand but you went beyond that. So I answered your point, and went beyond that as well. Have you ever heard about people in Glass houses?  Dont cry about when people do to you what you do to others. There's a saying on that as well.
 
So go ahead and throw out what you got. Do I do this for me? Yes, I never claimed that this was a selfless act, I was happy enough being a mechanic for the first 20 years in my career, when the deterioration reached the point where I could no longer just sit on the sidelines I started speaking up, My peers felt that I was able to express what they too felt and asked me to run for a Union position, so I did. But unlike many others I dont whine about how this is a "thankless job" and criticize the very people who put me here. I didnt kiss ass to try and get an International spot so I could do that and not face an election. I still realize that this is a temporary privilege and have pushed to ensure that at any time the members can remove me through recall if they feel that what I'm doing is in conflict with what they want me to do.

Dude, its Peterson's and your job to know the answer to the question, not mine. If you don't know it then you are more f'd up then I thought. We get the representation we deserve.

 

[HMK]

Bob,
All I wanted to know is what numbers were used to calculate the initial distribution. Plain and simple... and it should be that plain and simple. Someone plugged numbers into a formula. That answer was used to determine what we received.
Again, I'm asking to know what are those numbers used? It wouldn't matter at that point if we got 52%, 35% or 100%.
My intent in starting this topic was not to make it a TWU vs. AMFA issue, or to make any personnel attacks.
Without this information how are WE able to fact check the accuracy of what we received.

 

[The Truth Will Set U Free]

The sad part about all of this is people don't want to tell the Truth. The reason not one person can answer the simple question is that THEY DONT KNOW. Now as to why they don't know is simple. It is easy to just blame someone else. 
 
GIVE PEOPLE THE INFO THAT IS NEEDED TO FIGURE OUT IF THEY GOT THE RIGHT NO# OF SHARES ON DEC. 9. THAT IS SO DAMN SIMPLE TO DO.  STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT SEEM AS IF ITS NOT POSSIBLE UNTIL 120 DAYS FROM NOW. SOME ONE MADE THE DECISION ON HOW MANY AND EXPECTED NOT TO BE QUESTIONED.
 
LOCAL 591 IT IS NOW YOUR JOB TO STOP BLAMING JIM LITTLE AND GIVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR . IF YOU CAN DO THAT JUST SAY SO AND STEP DOWN AND LET SOMEONE WHO CAN. 
 
As for all the people on this site that hide who they are. Grow some balls and give your real name before you EVER try to attack the people that have GUTS enough to tell you who they are. (speaking of Bob Owens).
 
As I Stated in my 1st post . My name is LARRY DAVIS. I am a Aircraft Mechanic in Miami. 
 
Now either stand up and uncross your legs and grow some balls. 

 

[Overspeed]

We will know the final tally soon on equity shares
 
Jetwire Blurb
American to Distribute Approximately 1.3 Million Shares to U.S.-based Legacy American Employees
As previously communicated, the majority of U.S.-based legacy American employees are eligible to receive 23.6 percent of the shares of common stock in the new company (AAL) distributed to holders of allowed unsecured claims. The initial distribution of equity occurred on Dec. 9 with approximately 25 million shares of new common stock granted to eligible employees. We’re excited to share that there will be a second distribution for the Day 30 mark – approximately 1.3 million shares of new common stock distributed to certain U.S.-based legacy American employees. It’s important to note that we will not know the final total number of shares until after the shares are distributed to eligible employees.
We expect these shares to be distributed as soon as is administratively practical on or after Jan. 8. Once the shares are distributed, employees have the option of holding, selling or transferring their shares as they wish.

 

[AANOTOK]

"Larry Davis," using your name on a blog does not mean your balls are any bigger than mine, PERIOD!
 
You have no idea why I or anyone else does not use their real name...as a matter of fact, most folks on most blogs do not use their real names and do "hide" behind an alias. For you to come on here (and some others have done it as well) and think you're Mr. Brave for not using any alias is pretty damn lame. You do want you feel like doing, and I will do what is comfortable to me (and hopefully without your two cents worth of criticism).

 

[NYer]

So it is your position that we will end up with 4.8% of the 72%?
Are you that naive not to realize that the reason why there is enough value for everyone else to get 100% is because they will be tasking that money from you for the next six years? That AA was never really bankrupt and this whole thing was a fraud?

Of course not. That was never this this process worked. They Equity Distribution is a function of the bankruptcy and the Creditors get up to their full recovery of the lost value... They don't profit. You say "we were told" this and that... Well, please show us where the TWU told you or us that we're getting 4.8% of the Company. Those things were reported in some newspapers, like the Tulsa World but not the TWU. All the documents state that we get 4.8% of the outstanding shares. The "stakeholders" will end up getting sharing the 72% and included in that group are the preferred shareholders who stands to profit from the Merger.

Creditors are not meant to profit, but to try and get a "recovery" of their losses... Which they are.

The pilots had their contract abrogated and gained little bit risked a lot. They have up 17%,like we did and they received the same amount of Equity as they had before the vote.

You've been wrong almost since the beginning of the process but it's understandable you need to try and reconcile your errors.

 

[NYer]

Dont give up so easily, thow out a point to bring it back. Such as;
 
Here is my understanding so people will have something to look at until we recieve a definative answer from Tom Roth.
 
The Equity distribution process is a complicated one, the values of what we will recieve is in a state of flux with certian barriers not to exceed 4.8% of the shares distributed to the unsecured creditors or $330 million, the full value of the claim the International came up with for our claim. This claim does not include the losses we will most certainly incurr as a result of the six year concessionary deal nor does it include losses from the 2003 deal or the hundreds of millions we lost due to the International not pushing for a release after we rejected the 2010 concessionary deal after three years of "negotiations". It is based solely on the claim put together by the International and the people they hired, Negotiation Committee members were not invited to that part of the process. The Equity Committee was formed afterwards to determine eligibility and some other issues the International didnt want to decide but the rest of the deal was crafted before the Committee was even formed. Unlike other creditors we are not getting 100% of what we lost, we may be getting 100% of the much much smaller claim we put in for.
 
While we have been given some information and the formula we have not been given the most critical number that we need to figure out if we recieved the correct number of shares in the initial distribution. We wont get that number-the total number of shares given to unsecured creditors, until after day 120. The only figure thats availble now is the total number of shares given to AA, but that figure is not the number that the 4.8% will be based on. We wont know that number until we know what the price of the stock is on day 120. What we do know is that if the price goes up during this period we will not benefit from this gain, as our award is capped at $330 million, if the price goes down we will be capped at 4.8% of the shares distributed to unsecured creditors, so we could share in the downside, but not the upside because its possible that 4.8% could be less than $330 million. Either way we will either get $330 milion or 4.8% of the shares that were distibuted among the unsecured creditors, whichever is lower.
 
Bottom line, we wont know until we find out were the 72% gets distributed, how much of that goes to unsecured creditors and how much goes elsewhere,  and we wont know that until we know the price of the stock on day 120.
 
Thats my understanding.

There is more than enough Equity value to ensure every Creditor gets a 100% recovery, and it is also the reason that AMR shareholders will also receive value (a rarity in bankruptcies)

You keep trying to make the TWU responsible for the Equity, the value and the process. All of that is a manifestation of the bankruptcy process. In which Equity is paid out to Creditors base on their losses incurred within the bankruptcy itself and it isn't and never was a manner to recuperate future losses. This is a negotiation amongst the Creditors and other stakeholders and not something under the full control of the airline as would be a contract negotiations.

If negotiations were to compensate for future losses then you can be sure the other Creditors would get an even larger chunk of the pie. To continously try to deflect, blame or confuse the reality of this particular process is pretty disingenuous to those you proport to represent.