TWU.....Transparency Now on Equity Distribution!

[NYer]

NYer,
 
I agree with you. You are knowlegible about TWU and the case for that matter. However, The following numbers will not change, they are dependent on the 9,652 eligible M&R participants.  I'm not correct? "Total M&R Hourly Straight time all in Payroll Rate" and "The Aggregate M&R Service Rate", which TWU knew since July 16, 2013. I believe that you can retrieve this data for us.

Assuming they were getting that data as of that date. We don't know the time period from which they getting the payroll rate or the aggregate date. I guess you're assuming it was as of July 2013.I'm not sure about that timing.

Also, we assume the TWU received that data and has the permission of the Company to release that information publicly. Again, I'm not sure about that.

Either way, it seems to raise more questions than answer them. I am certain that we will have the ability to reconcile the numbers but only after the process has ended.

 

[1AA]

It's obvious that the TWU, once again, wants to keep the membership in the dark.  If the membership knew all the numbers then you guys would be able to "fact check" the TWU as you go.  This way it will be said and done how the TWU says it is suppose to happen.  AMFAinMIAMI is correct, why is the TWU still at AA representing, after the decades upon decades of this very same type of representation, PATHETIC I tell you,  PATHETIC...

. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.

 

[1AA]

AND YET THE TWU IS STILL HERE AT AA​

 ​

 ​

 ​

WHY​

. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.

 

[AANOTOK]

. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.

You do realize you're asking for alot! B)

 

[HMK]

Assuming they were getting that data as of that date. We don't know the time period from which they getting the payroll rate or the aggregate date. I guess you're assuming it was as of July 2013.I'm not sure about that timing.

Also, we assume the TWU received that data and has the permission of the Company to release that information publicly. Again, I'm not sure about that.

Either way, it seems to raise more questions than answer them. I am certain that we will have the ability to reconcile the numbers but only after the process has ended.

NYer,
 
The question is, who would benefit from withholding this information from us? You sound as though you're content to wait until the end of the process, but the Pilots are in receipt of their data, and the F/A's are in receipt of theirs as well...why are we any different than they are? We have a right to know what (actual) numbers our distribution was based on. As to permission, why would the other unions receive permission to inform their membership and the TWU be denied? All I'm asking for is full disclosure and clarity on the numbers that were used to calculate the amount of the initial distribution.

 

[NYer]

NYer,
 
The question is, who would benefit from withholding this information from us? You sound as though you're content to wait until the end of the process, but the Pilots are in receipt of their data, and the F/A's are in receipt of theirs as well...why are we any different than they are? We have a right to know what (actual) numbers our distribution was based on. As to permission, why would the other unions receive permission to inform their membership and the TWU be denied? All I'm asking for is full disclosure and clarity on the numbers that were used to calculate the amount of the initial distribution.

The formulas used by each union is different, thereby needing different types of information from the Company. The APA and APFA have a more straightforward mechanism due mostly because they only have one group as opposed to 7.

 

[HMK]

The formulas used by each union is different, thereby needing different types of information from the Company. The APA and APFA have a more straightforward mechanism due mostly because they only have one group as opposed to 7.

That may be true, but since the intial distribution has already been made the data should be available for all groups.

 

[DallasConehead]

Anyone that was on the equity distribution committee should have all the information needed, including all the parameters of the formula. So, you only need look to your Local 591 president, whats more, if he is only just now asking for the info from the International after the committee was convened months and months ago, did their work and went home, then there is something seriously wrong with him.

To me it sounds like another case of, it all their fault, not mine.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Sure they are. Read the Plan of Reorganization. They are to receive "up to 100% of their full recovery." Just like the rest of the Creditors.

One or the other has to be fixed, either the 4.8% or the $330 million. Are you saying that we could end up with less than $330 million if the 4.8% comes in at lower than $330 million but we can not come in at more than $330 million even if we haven't received 4.8% of the shares?

If thats the case then didn't the Union sell this under false pretenses? In reality they negotiated to be able to possibly receive at risk shares up to the amount of extra concessions that were imposed on mechanics who were already at the bottom of the industry, so at best they would still be at the bottom. They sold this as 4.8% of the company when in fact, from reading what you are saying, they can only receive a value of up to, but not guaranteed to be $330 million, they can get less but at any rate they cant get more. They can get 4.8% but only if that 4.8% comes in at or below $330 million.

So from that what you are saying is its in our best interests to do whatever we can to tank the stock over the 120 day period, this way we can be assured of getting at least our 4.8%, thats its in our best interests to see the shares rise in value once we get them, after the 120 day window, but its not in our best interest to see the shares go up during that period.

Sure thats what the rest of the creditors got but where any of the other creditors told that if they didn't accept the company's terms that the court would throw out their contracts and allow the company to impose new binding contract that they had to comply to?

 

[NYer]

One or the other has to be fixed, either the 4.8% or the $330 million. Are you saying that we could end up with less than $330 million if the 4.8% comes in at lower than $330 million but we can not come in at more than $330 million even if we haven't received 4.8% of the shares?If thats the case then didn't the Union sell this under false pretenses? In reality they negotiated to be able to possibly receive at risk shares up to the amount of extra concessions that were imposed on mechanics who were already at the bottom of the industry, so at best they would still be at the bottom. They sold this as 4.8% of the company when in fact, from reading what you are saying, they can only receive a value of up to, but not guaranteed to be $330 million, they can get less but at any rate they cant get more. They can get 4.8% but only if that 4.8% comes in at or below $330 million.So from that what you are saying is its in our best interests to do whatever we can to tank the stock over the 120 day period, this way we can be assured of getting at least our 4.8%, thats its in our best interests to see the shares rise in value once we get them, after the 120 day window, but its not in our best interest to see the shares go up during that period.Sure thats what the rest of the creditors got but where any of the other creditors told that if they didn't accept the company's terms that the court would throw out their contracts and allow the company to impose new binding contract that they had to comply to?

Equity is a process of the bankruptcy and the returns are many to repay some or all of the debt owed. To say that we can get up to the $330M is a mechanism of whether there is enough Equity to repay all Creditors. In the case of this BK, it seems so, but this BK is unlike most others in that there is enough value to repay the losses incurred by the Creditors due to the BK.

The negotiations of how much Equity each is to receive is done with the other Creditors and not the corporation. Being that there was enough value to satisfy everyone, we each received a corresponding percentage of the outstanding shares.

Outstanding shares comes from a pool of which all the "stakeholders" get their piece of the pie. (the 72%). The group that stands to reap the most is the group that usually gets the least... The shareholders.

In this case, they have made it clear that once everyone has reached their full recovery, the rest of the value belings to them and they will benefit from the overage of value.

In the end, we will end up with 4.8% if the outstanding shares because that is what will be needed to recover the losses incurred. That's the reason they will likely wait until the 120th day to do the final distribution...And you're correct, we are better off if the price falls because it would take more shares to make up our value while the shareholders would get 3.5%. As the price rises their percentage rises and the pie of outstanding shares gets smaller. 4.8% of that pie will be ours, the question becomes how many pieces will the shareholders take before we get our piece.

It's like if I owe you a dollar, you'll get the full value but you may not know how many coins it'll take to pay you off.... 20 nickels, 10 dimes, 4 quarters, 100 pennies or a combination of each.

 

[700UW]

http://twu514.org/blog/2014/01/06/day-30-equity-distribution-communications-heads-up-to-legacy-american/

 

[comatose]

Anyone that was on the equity distribution committee should have all the information needed, including all the parameters of the formula. So, you only need look to your Local 591 president, whats more, if he is only just now asking for the info from the International after the committee was convened months and months ago, did their work and went home, then there is something seriously wrong with him.

To me it sounds like another case of, it all their fault, not mine.

 
 
So who made the deal? Little and the company.
 
Now, what makes you think the Int'l is going to make things transparent?
 
 
Please, just maybe you need to hide you distain for Peterson a little better than you are.
Must be slow in training.

 

[HMK]

NYer, 
 
You do a great job of not answering my question....I will try to make myself clear one last time. On Dec. 9, 2013 we members were given a distribution of equity shares. The TWU stated that we received 52% of the total distribution initially. What data was used for the TWU to calculate how many shares I/we received? Someone had to input numbers into a formula that determined what I/we was supposed to receive...all I am asking is what those numbers were, a simple request, that anyone on the distribution committee should be able to answer....

 

[AANYER]

So, all this information is great, Can just have the parameters to the formula that made up the initial distribution. What is the TWU hiding? If nothing, just let is know what were the straight time all in payroll and the aggregate M&R service rates. This should be easy, unless there's plans to manipulate these figures. TWU, give us a chance to trust you.

 

[NYer]

So, all this information is great, Can just have the parameters to the formula that made up the initial distribution. What is the TWU hiding? If nothing, just let is know what were the straight time all in payroll and the aggregate M&R service rates. This should be easy, unless there's plans to manipulate these figures. TWU, give us a chance to trust you.

 
Trust? That ship has sailed.