TWU.....Transparency Now on Equity Distribution!

[NYer]

Correct, $330M to make a "full recovery" from the losses incurred within the bankruptcy process (under the definition of such in the bankruptcy statutes), plus "postpetition interest at the non-default rate and interest on overdue interest."
 

 

[HMK]

Dear Brothers,
Assuming the letter that Garry Drummond has posted is accurate, he continues to evade the request that we have made from the beginning. We simply, are seeking the information used to calculate the amount of shares/dollars that has been distributed so far. We understand that there are other 'hands in the pot', but we are seeking information that is both numeric and perhaps, in the language of the agreement that he describes, that will give us the ability to understand how that amount of shares/dollars that we have received so far was arrived at. Since the distributions have already been made, concrete information as to how they were made must exist. We would like that information.
 
Again, other unions have been able to provide their memberships with this information, why are we different?
 
Fraternally,
Howard Klein

 

[Rogallo]

So, how long have we been under the TWU's reign of secrecy?
 
Had enough yet?

 

[BigMac]

There is more info on http://www.twu567.org
site than 514s member log in site.

http://www.twu567.org/pdfs/homepg/equity/TWU_Equity_Numbers.pdf

 

[NYer]

There is more info on http://www.twu567.org
site than 514s member log in site.

http://www.twu567.org/pdfs/homepg/equity/TWU_Equity_Numbers.pdf

 
This number in the document you posted is wrong "TWU 4.8% Equity shares............26,129,340"
 
The TWU, or any other Unsecured Creditor, does NOT get the percentage of shares based on the 72% value, but rather on the allotted shares for the unsecured creditors minus any shares taken by the preferred stockholders (old equity holders) based on triggers from the fluctuations in share price over a 120 day period.
 
Since that number or assumption of the shares allocated to the TWU is incorrect the rest of the formula that based their math on that number is also incorrect.

 

[HMK]

If the numbers are incorrect then the TWU should let us members know the correct numbers. Why the secrecy? They post that the information that's being spread around is inaccurate, yet they refuse to give us any data to make it clear.

 

[AANYER]

So, if the formula is correct, but the parameters are incorrect, please provide us with the formula and parameters for each of our first two distributions. Should be easy. You came up with results in both of the first two distributions. It's not like you still trying to figure out. TWU gave the company the percentages for each TWU employee. Am I not correct?

 

[AANYER]

Gary,

So now you are telling us that TWU is only entitled to approximately 16 million shares. That's a far cry from your ridiculous assumption of around 23 million shares and the value there of, back at your road shows. Let me guess, the reason must have been because the IBT and AMFA was on TWU's tail. Why don't you just plug in the rest of the numbers and tell the M&R group that they are not likely to get much more than the initial distribution of shares.

 

[NYer]

If the numbers are incorrect then the TWU should let us members know the correct numbers. Why the secrecy? They post that the information that's being spread around is inaccurate, yet they refuse to give us any data to make it clear.

 
Well, no one knows the how many shares the TWU or any other Creditor will receive until the process ends. The fluctuations in share price over the 120 day period makes it impossible to know and irresponsible to guess.

 

[NYer]

Gary,

So now you are telling us that TWU is only entitled to approximately 16 million shares. That's a far cry from your ridiculous assumption of around 23 million shares and the value there of, back at your road shows. Let me guess, the reason must have been because the IBT and AMFA was on TWU's tail. Why don't you just plug in the rest of the numbers and tell the M&R group that they are not likely to get much more than the initial distribution of shares.

 
During the Roadshow, the  presentation clearly stated that the assumptions of the numbers shared was based on the share price being $14.50. Now, since the share prices have risen there will be less shares available to the unsecured creditors. So with a share price of $22.55, the number of shares would be 16M.
 
As the share price rises the number of shares falls, and the opposite is true...as the share price drops, the number of shares increases.

 

[AANYER]

Gary,

So, why not just plug in the rest of the parameters, particularly the all in rates and simply let us know. I'm sure you would agree that transparency should be the rule.

 

[AANOTOK]

So the roadshow assumed upon BK exit this would be a 11-12 Billion dollar company. With the DOJ shenanigans, the "New AA" exited as a 17 plus Billion dollar company yet our value did not go up. So, even if the company emerged as a Trillion dollar company, my value would still only be what it was in the original assumption??

 

[NYer]

So the roadshow assumed upon BK exit this would be a 11-12 Billion dollar company. With the DOJ shenanigans, the "New AA" exited as a 17 plus Billion dollar company yet our value did not go up. So, even if the company emerged as a Trillion dollar company, my value would still only be what it was in the original assumption??

 
The value was never set as a percentage of the company. Equity in a BK is tied to recovering the lost value of the creditor within that process. This isn't a unique situation and it goes hand in hand with how bankruptcies work. As a matter of fact, the bankruptcy was the only airline bankruptcy in which the creditors will receive 100% of their lost value.
 
So as much as most will complain about the number of shares and the value receive in those shares, we happen to be the biggest recipients of equity from any of the over 166 airline bankruptcies, although I'm sure many won't care about that and will still feel slighted.

 

[screwed again]

So the TWU is getting a dollar amount considered lost value, and the stock is to make up for this lost value. Why do I not know the dollar amount I should recieve to satisfy my portion of the lost value. I understand each individual has a different items to plug into a formula, seniority for example.Then each work group has different items to plug into their formula like M&R and the 757 deal. If I knew how much value I was to recieve, I could figure how many shares based on whatever price ,or average of multiple days price the stock is at that it would take to reach that dollar amount. Of course the higher the stock the less shares it takes to get me to that amount. Perhaps I'm more confused now than I was at the beginning of this thread.

 

[1AA]

So when we got our first distribution in December it was 52% of WHAT????
Since they said it was 52% then what is the formula to figure out the 52% or the entire amount? Is it that frigging complicated? What is the TWU hiding from us? They know the formula since they already distributed 52% of our equity. Why is it so difficult for the TWU to disclose the numbers?
 
The stock price in the assumption (I hate that word) was $14.50 a share.
The assumption of what AA is or was worth is 11-12 billion dollars.
AA came out of BK valued at $17 billion and a stock price of $22.55.
TWU said it was lower on both assumptions. So the TWU got it wrong again.
This just shows that no union today should handle financial payouts or pensions for its members. This is beginning to turn out to be criminal. TWU better come clean because I see a class action lawsuit to force them to do so legally.