TWU.....Transparency Now on Equity Distribution!

[FWAAA]

Sure, what we don't know is what are the price points in which the Preferred Stockholders (old AMR stockholders) receive a higher percentage of the available shares. They are guaranteed 3.5% with that percentage rising as the price of the shares shares rise. As they receive more shares that available shares for everyone else shrinks.
 
We don't receive 4.8% of the 544M shares, we receive 4.8% of the "outstanding shares" which comes after the Preferred Stockholders get theirs.
 
All creditors will receive 100% of their lost value...no more.

Stop making things up.
 
Holders of old AMR stand to get a lot more, but their gain will not come at the expense of the employee shares,   The employees will get their stated percentages.   The unsecured creditors whose claims are in dollar amounts will get fixed dollar amounts, paid in stock.
 
The employees will get their fixed percentages of the total number of shares issued on the 72% side.   It's impossible to state that number with accuracy at this point because of the 120 day provisions (which are there to ensure that the merger satisfies the tax-free reorg parts of the Internal Revenue Code).   

 

[AANOTOK]

AANYER,
 
So are we getting screwed here, or are you asking if we are getting screwed? My head hurts!

 

[NYer]

I've read it.   Nowhere does it limit the employee groups to any fixed dollar amounts.   

 
Sure it does. Creditors will only receive the value of their losses incurred in the BK. In the TWU's case, that equal an estimated $330M (not including interest). That is the legal meaning of "full recovery."

 

[FWAAA]

Sure it does. Creditors will only receive the value of their losses incurred in the BK. In the TWU's case, that equal an estimated $330M (not including interest). That is the legal meaning of "full recovery."

That does not apply to the agreed claims of the APA, the APFA, the TWU or the non-union AA employees.
 
Eagle employees, on the other hand, received claims for fixed dollar amounts.    So did all other non-employee unsecured creditors.
 
The AA employees are not so limited.   Neither are the stockholders of old AMR.   

 

[NYer]

Nyer,
 
Please let's stay on topic.  However, TWU was projected to receive around 23 millions shares when USAir stock price was around $14.50 per share.  There was a 64% appreciation in the stock value to $22.55.  This is the reason the TWU is receiving approximately 26.1 million shares to be distributed, before reserves and expenses.  Just a bit more data, as it relates to your statement about TWU's CBA losses, TWU lost 233.1 million dollars per year for six years of the current contract betwixt and between Scope and Pension alone. The equates to $1,398,600,000 billion over the six year contract. Please read a little more before you issue incorrect data and information.  This is at the essence of why we received the 4.8% of the 544 million shares.  It does not come close to what TWU gave up in this contract. Gentlemen, I'm schooled on this information.  Let's stick to the initial post, please do not stray.  We are asking for the parameters to the formula.

 
In the Equity Roadshow, they estimated to receive 23M shares at $14.50 per...which comes out to approximately $330M.
 
It is said the TWU received about 8M shares at $22.55, that comes to approximately $180M in value or an estimated 52% to 54% of the total of approximately $330M.
 
---
 
The losses estimated are not yearly, but under the BK statutes it is estimated from the losses incurred at that time within the BK process. The Equity Distribution is a legal process and not a contractually negotiated item. You can be as creative as you'd like with the math..but every Creditor in every BK can make the same claims as you have tried to make moving the losses over several years. NO ONE would ever get that value back and that is not how this process works. In trying to come to a value for each Creditor to receive it is the losses incurred due to the BK, not during subsequent years. Our estimate or returns stem from the 17% in loss of value from the CBA, one time...not perpetual. 

 

[NYer]

That does not apply to the agreed claims of the APA, the APFA, the TWU or the non-union AA employees.
 
Eagle employees, on the other hand, received claims for fixed dollar amounts.    So did all other non-employee unsecured creditors.
 
The AA employees are not so limited.   Neither are the stockholders of old AMR.   

 
We are all Creditors and are under the same guidelines. It is a bankruptcy process in which the negotiated percentages were done among the creditors and not necessarily the Company. Without a negotiated settlement, every Creditor would have to make arguments as to how much they should receive and would be scrutinized by all the other Creditors. The negotiated settlement in this case is rare and guaranteed a return for each Creditor to receive their full recovery with the extra proceeds going entirely to the holders of the old AMR shares. None of the Creditors are in a legal position to profit from a BK, the shareholders are and that is the reason THEY receive a larger percentage of the shares as the prices go up....As each share gains in value, it would take less shares to make all the Creditors whole, in the eyes of the BK statutes. The old AMR shareholders are guaranteed a 3.5% pool of shares, which can increase exponentially, leaving the creditors will less shares to distribute but with each having a higher value.

 

[AANYER]

NYer,
 
We need the parameters of the formula, "Total M&R Hourly Straight time all in Payroll Rate" and "The Aggregate M&R Service Rate", which they knew since July 16, 2013.  Thanks in advance.

 

[AANYER]

To all,
 
"We know the following, the Pilots and F/A received notification of their formulas and parameters prior to the Equity Distribution of Dec. 9 as stated on their websites. Even our management knew of its own distribution parameters prior to the actual distribution."
 
"We must ask ourselves, why hasn’t the TWU provided us the with the same information? Why are they delaying this simple request? Shouldn’t the TWU be held accountable to its members and show clarity?"

 

[iluvaa]

I promise you toolbox flunkies that FWAAA knows way more about this **** than you union punks I will believe him over you fools any day

 

[FWAAA]

Sure it does. Creditors will only receive the value of their losses incurred in the BK. In the TWU's case, that equal an estimated $330M (not including interest). That is the legal meaning of "full recovery."

Here is the order confirming the 4th Amended Plan:
 
http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/10367_15463.pdf
 
Where, exactly, does that plan limit the AA TWU share to approximately $330 million?    

Here's a hint:   Nowhere.  
 
Read Section 4.12 (starts on page 53 of the Plan, page 144 of the attached pdf).
 
What was worth about $330 million at the time of the roadshow earlier in the year is now worth about $690 million.    The holders of old AMR may receive more than $3 billion.   The APA's share is worth about $1.9 billion.   

 

[NYer]

NYer,
 
We need the parameters of the formula, "Total M&R Hourly Straight time all in Payroll Rate" and "The Aggregate M&R Service Rate", which they knew since July 16, 2013.  Thanks in advance.

 
We need all the numbers we can get, but we won't know if we received what we should have because that can't be known until after the equity has been allocated.

 

[AANYER]

TWU, we are not clear on our equity distribution.  Please produce the formula with the parameters so that we can see what we actually received. The other Union groups already know theirs

 

[NYer]

Here is the order confirming the 4th Amended Plan:
 
http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/10367_15463.pdf
 
Where, exactly, does that plan limit the AA TWU share to approximately $330 million?    

Here's a hint:   Nowhere.  
 
Read Section 4.12 (starts on page 53 of the Plan, page 144 of the attached pdf).
 
What was worth about $330 million at the time of the roadshow earlier in the year is now worth about $690 million.    The holders of old AMR may receive more than $3 billion.   The APA's share is worth about $1.9 billion.   

 
From your document: "The TWU shall receive, in full satisfaction of the TWU American Claim, shares of New Common Stock constituting 4.8% of the Creditor New Common Stock Allocation"
 
Also from your document (page 101), the definition of a claim: "1.62 Claim has the meaning set forth in section 101(5) of the Bankruptcy Code."
 
Section 101(5) of the Bankruptcy Code: Subchapter I (502)(b)Except as provided in subsections (e)(2), (f), (g), (h) and (i) of this section, if such objection to a claim is made, the court, after notice and a hearing, shall determine the amount of such claim in lawful currency of the United States as of the date of the filing of the petition, and shall allow such claim in such amount...(7) if such claim is the claim of an employee for damages resulting from the termination of an employment contract, such claim exceeds—
 
(A) the compensation provided by such contract, without acceleration, for one year following the earlier of—
           (i) the date of the filing of the petition; or
           (ii) the date on which the employer directed the employee to terminate, or such employee terminated, performance under such contract; plus

(B) any unpaid compensation due under such contract, without acceleration, on the earlier of such dates;

 

 

[FWAAA]

From your document: "The TWU shall receive, in full satisfaction of the TWU American Claim, shares of New Common Stock constituting 4.8% of the Creditor New Common Stock Allocation"

I agree with this part.   The TWU shall receive 4.8% of the 72% AA portion of the new stock.    As posted above, that amounts to approximately 26 million shares, although we don't know with precision exactly how many shares each union will receive. since we don't yet know how many total shares will be issued.   
 
The remainder of your quote is completely irrelevant to the TWU American Claim - it's irrelevant to all of the employee group claims.   

 

[MetalMover]

Don't forget the TWU taking the 5% to settle grievances.