TWU - Thought Police Cannon Fired

[RV4]

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On 8/6/2003 347 PM twuer wrote:

RV4,
You're an idiot! You talk about integrity and then you go and post something like this. Why don't you just come out and answer the questions that are asked of you. I have asked on many occaions. . .what would AMFA do in the same situation? Not just this particualr one but the other ones that you continue to harp on. You and I both know that answer. You lose RV4. You can continue to gripe, complain, and cry but you just proved to me and the other readers on these boards what kind of man you really are by your own words. Get a life Dave. You suck at debating.

Oh, and before you start on me, the numbers are still coming in from NWA. They don't look good Dave. You will be the first to know when I get them.



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You keep threatening more "numbers" but still no proof on your other lies...ROFLMAO!
Here is one for ya wimpy,
If it is a violation of the TWU Constistution to appear in a picture with Delle-Femine, then file charges on these guys..


Left to Right...
Dan Cunningham Local 567 Officer, Gary Schiable Local 565 Member , O.V. Delle-Femine AMFA National, Unknown (Dennis Sanderson? UAL), John Hadaway Local 565 Member.
Don't be selective, and next time I am with Delle, I will surely get my picture taken with him and post it also. You don't seem to have the nads to enforce your own Consitution evenly. Enforcement is done on a selective basis to preserve the dictatorship. It has NOTHING to do with protecting the membership.
Another interesting note:
THE TWU GOT ON AA PROPERTY IN 1947 BY "RAIDING" A MECHANICS UNION WITH A CONTRACT IN PLACE AT THE TIME. WHY IS THIS OK BACK THEN, BUT NOT IN 2003?

 

[RV4]

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On 8/6/2003 347 PM twuer wrote:

Oh, and before you start on me, the numbers are still coming in from NWA. They don't look good Dave. You will be the first to know when I get them.

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OR WAS IT THE BASE RATE OF PAY NUMBERS:

 

[twuer]

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On 8/6/2003 4:06:24 PM RV4 wrote:




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On 8/6/2003 347 PM twuer wrote:

RV4,
You're an idiot!  You talk about integrity and then you go and post something like this.  Why don't you just come out and answer the questions that are asked of you.  I have asked on many occaions. . .what would AMFA do in the same situation?  Not just this particualr one but the other ones that you continue to harp on.  You and I both know that answer.  You lose RV4.  You can continue to gripe, complain, and cry but you just proved to me and the other readers on these boards what kind of man you really are by your own words.  Get a life Dave.  You suck at debating.

Oh, and before you start on me, the numbers are still coming in from NWA.  They don't look good Dave. You will be the first to know when I get them. 

     

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You keep threatening more "numbers" but still no proof on your other lies...ROFLMAO!
Here is one for ya wimpy,
If it is a violation of the TWU Constistution to appear in a picture with Delle-Femine, then file charges on these guys..

 

[RV4]

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On 8/6/2003 4:46:19 PM twuer wrote:

And regarding this post, the TWU DID NOT charge the three line presidents for taking a picture with the real estate agent but instead for a violation of article XIX of the TWU constitution. Can you say dual-unionism???

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THE REAL ESTATE AGENT?

This is picture in question. It was taken at the Charles Taylor Award Conference. The "so-called" real estate agent was recognized by the Federal Aviation Administration and was given the award. Do you even know who Charles E. Taylor was?

Directors Update
May 30, 2003

The Charles E. Taylor event held at the San Diego Aerospace Museum on May 24th, 2003 was a great success. Seventy-four people attended this celebration.

I would like to thank all the AMTA members and sponsors for their support. Also, special thanks go out to the San Diego Regional Airport Authority, AeroTech Services, Inc., Mike Abla of Advanced Technologies Services International, American Airlines AMT's Mark Rasco and Kris Kristjansson, O.V. Delle-Femine, AMFA National Director and Lee Seham, Attorney at Law.

We especially appreciate the San Diego Aerospace Museum for their willingness to recognize Taylor's contributions to the history of aviation. Now, everyone who visits will discover that his innovations established the profession of aircraft maintenance.

Everyone enjoyed the food and drinks. The Rock Bottom Brewery donated premium microbrewery beer, Trader Joe's contributed their fine wines, and Art Bolic Catering provided an authentic Mexican buffet. All three businesses reflected the best of San Diego with special attention to detail and quality.

Last, but not least, I'd like to acknowledge the efforts of Larry Costanza, AMTA's Secretary and Web Master, Bruce Hunter and Rich and Terrie McNeely, AMTA's web site editors. This event would not have been possible without their dedicated assistance.

The evening started with my speech about Taylor's humble professionalism and outstanding skills. Afterwards, Richard Dilbeck, of the FAA's Flight Standard District Office, gave a wonderful
Power Point presentation on the life and contributions of Charles E. Taylor.

Next, Nelson Robinson, a Tuskegee Airman Mechanic, spoke. He gave us insights into the past, a time when the military was segregated. In his speech, he expressed the joys and challenges of being an aircraft mechanic at that time.

The ceremony ended with FAA's presentation of the Charles E. Taylor Master Mechanic Award. It went to O.V. Delle-Femine, National Director of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. This award was intended to honor those with at least 50 years experience in the aviation maintenance industry. Mr. Delle-Femine was nominated by myself, AMTA Director, Vic Remeneski, a retired NWA AMT, and Ron Wirts a retired TWA AMT. Mr. Delle-Femine was given a handsome plaque along with a FAA Certificate and two lapel pins.

The Aircraft Maintenance Technicians Association donated an impressive plaque mentioning Charles E. Taylor's contributions to building the first aircraft engines for the Wright Flyer. AMTA also donated copies of resolutions - from the state of California, the City of San Diego, and the County of San Diego - recognizing May 24th as Aircraft Maintenance Technician's Day in honor of Charles E. Taylor's birthday. We also donated a classic photograph taken from the biography Charles E. Taylor, The Wright Brothers Mechanician written by Howard Du Four. It shows him posing when he was in his early thirties.

Representatives from the following organizations attended this event: the U.S. Border Patrol's Aviation Wing, the U.S. Navy, Commercial and Private Aviation. Also, Police Chief Gonzalez was present to represent the San Diego Police Department's Aviation Wing.

O.V. Delle-Femine and AMFA also donated a plaque honoring Charles E. Taylor's stamp in aviation
history.

In closing, it was an honor and privilege to host this incredible event and bring to light the achievements of the first "unsung hero" of aviation. Because of Charles E. Taylor, we're celebrating 100 years of powered controlled flight.

Thank you Charlie.


Sincerely,

Ken MacTiernan

twuer,
Maybe you should call the FAA and tell them they gave the Charles E. Taylor Master Mechanic Award to a real estate agent?
Or maybe you can exlpain to us how the FAA would give such an honorable award to a real estate agent?
Or are you just spewing more TWU lies again without any facts to back up your claims.
Are you more knowing than the F.A.A. also?
DO YOU THINK SONNY HALL OR JAMES C. LITTLE WOULD EVER WIN A "MASTER MECHANIC" AWARD?

 

[twuer]

On 8/6/2003 4:25:12 PM RV4 wrote:




Are these the numbers you are talking about twuer,
      

 




AMFA did not negotiate the salaries or the rates at SWA or UAL.  And NWA continues to outsource their maintenance (what at 38% now?) and that number will more than likely get bigger in the very near future.  And poor guys at United.  They offered concessions, AMFA turned them down and now they are in worse shape!  What else you got??

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[twuer]

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On 8/6/2003 5:07:59 PM RV4 wrote:

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On 8/6/2003 5:03:39 PM twuer wrote:


On 8/6/2003 4:25:12 PM RV4 wrote:




Are these the numbers you are talking about twuer,

 
AMFA did not negotiate the salaries or the rates at SWA or UAL.  And NWA continues to outsource their maintenance (what at 38% now?) and that number will more than likely get bigger in the very near future.  And poor guys at United.  They offered concessions, AMFA turned them down and now they are in worse shape!  What else you got??

 ​

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Regardless of who negotiated other airlines wages, the facts are clear...
THE TWU IS BY FAR THE LOWEST PAID IN THE INDUSTRY AND AT THE LARGEST CARRIER TO BOOT!
Why don't you focus on your own union representation instead of everyone else's?

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Sounds like you are renegging on your AMFA hype Dave!
Let me get this straight. . .you think that if AMFA were to take control at AA, they would be able to miraculously get us the industry leading pay? Who are you kidding? You need to look at more statistics. NWA - outsourcing a big % of work thus more bump and rolls, UAL - looking real bad right now, and SWA seems to be the only major carrier not struggling right now. Just because you are a union doesn't mean you will get everything you hope for. That's living in a fantasy world. The companies are in control of the business despite what you want to believe. They might be the largest airline but it takes more money to run it. Duh!

 

[RV4]

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On 8/6/2003 5:03:39 PM twuer wrote:


On 8/6/2003 4:25:12 PM RV4 wrote:




Are these the numbers you are talking about twuer,


AMFA did not negotiate the salaries or the rates at SWA or UAL. And NWA continues to outsource their maintenance (what at 38% now?) and that number will more than likely get bigger in the very near future. And poor guys at United. They offered concessions, AMFA turned them down and now they are in worse shape! What else you got??

​

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Regardless of who negotiated other airlines wages, the facts are clear...
THE TWU IS BY FAR THE LOWEST PAID IN THE INDUSTRY AND AT THE LARGEST CARRIER TO BOOT!
Why don't you focus on your own union representation instead of everyone else's?

 

[RV4]

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On 8/6/2003 4:46:19 PM twuer wrote:

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RV4,
Here are some numbers for you. . .
Last Sunday the Star Tribune, out of Minneapolis, reported that in the year 2000 there were 9700 in mechanic and related employed at NWA and as of July 11th they now have 5670 M&R and the bump and rolls are not complete.
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So are you the liar or the TWU Local 514 "Informer" Newsletter Editor the LIAR?
Because the informer has on more than one occasion claimed over half of the NWA Mechanics have been laid-off. And used the number 4500 on more than one occasion also.
Did the TWU lift guaranteed job security on more than 3500 TWU members and allow them to hit the street? Is your union superior?
Are the layoffs at AA completed?

 

[RV4]

7207 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards

 

[RV4]

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On 8/6/2003 5:24:39 PM twuer wrote:

Sounds like you are renegging on your AMFA hype Dave!
Let me get this straight. . .you think that if AMFA were to take control at AA, they would be able to miraculously get us the industry leading pay? Who are you kidding? You need to look at more statistics. NWA - outsourcing a big % of work thus more bump and rolls, UAL - looking real bad right now, and SWA seems to be the only major carrier not struggling right now. Just because you are a union doesn't mean you will get everything you hope for. That's living in a fantasy world. The companies are in control of the business despite what you want to believe. They might be the largest airline but it takes more money to run it. Duh!


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You are not only a TWU stooge, I see you also tow the company propaganda line also.
SO, as long as we work for the largest carrier, we can expect to make the least in pay and benefits? Thanks for the TWU Philosophy lesson!
Is there anything else we should all know about our future if we remain with the TWU at the largest carrier?
YOU SAY...
"The companies are in control of the business despite what you want to believe."
Unless we are talking AMFA at NWA and then it is the union in control and responsible for layoffs and outsourcing? Your double speak and lies and adding up daily. When we look at Industry Lowest Payscales it is the company in charge. When we look at outsourcing and layoffs it is AMFA's fault.
Give it a rest dude, you are making yourself look more stupid than you deserve. And I am a compassionate man, and hate to watch you look this bad.

 

[RV4]

twuer,

Are these the numbers you are talking about?

 

[Checking it Out]

Kinda looks like dave is running out of items to discuss! This always happens when he can't face the truth and is losing the battle. TWUer has hit it on the nose. Look at all the rhetoric he has posted from the original issue. Dave, why don't you print the whole truth and add all the majors along with percntage on layoffs and benifits? or will this distort your numbers?

bob, I understand you have been suspended pending Investigation. Your remarks are a bunch of bull and you know it!

It's about time! I firmly believe if you do not support the organization you took an oath to represent than you have no business being in the position.

" Anyone wants to guess which one in the picture dave posted
does not believe in saluting the USA flag?"

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[AAmech]

What really ironic is how these amfanuts are now beating their chests about how great amfa's pay is now that WE voted to give our pay back! Where were these guys when we got our 2001 contract? They just went back in their holes staring at that crummy NW/AMFA contract that we now see is riddled with loopholes. Bottom line is the only way they can brag about their pay is when we give ours back!

 

[j7915]

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On 8/6/2003 5:24:39 PM twuer wrote:

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On 8/6/2003 5:07:59 PM RV4 wrote:

----------------

On 8/6/2003 5:03:39 PM twuer wrote:



On 8/6/2003 4:25:12 PM RV4 wrote:







Are these the numbers you are talking about twuer,


 

AMFA did not negotiate the salaries or the rates at SWA or UAL.  And NWA continues to outsource their maintenance (what at 38% now?) and that number will more than likely get bigger in the very near future.  And poor guys at United.  They offered concessions, AMFA turned them down and now they are in worse shape!  What else you got??

 ​

----------------​

Regardless of who negotiated other airlines wages, the facts are clear...

THE TWU IS BY FAR THE LOWEST PAID IN THE INDUSTRY AND AT THE LARGEST CARRIER TO BOOT!

Why don't you focus on your own union representation instead of everyone else's?


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Sounds like you are renegging on your AMFA hype Dave!

Let me get this straight. . .you think that if AMFA were to take control at AA, they would be able to miraculously get us the industry leading pay? Who are you kidding? You need to look at more statistics. NWA - outsourcing a big % of work thus more bump and rolls, UAL - looking real bad right now, and SWA seems to be the only major carrier not struggling right now. Just because you are a union doesn't mean you will get everything you hope for. That's living in a fantasy world. The companies are in control of the business despite what you want to believe. They might be the largest airline but it takes more money to run it. Duh!




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Of course AMFA will raise the wages at AA...for those that will remain on the payroll. Look at NWA and Alaskan. Dave must be working on his A&P, they don't have any welding to do on the line, so he'll just have to change wheels and check oil, when he isn't pontificating about the glory of an aircraft mechanic. Signing log books etc, whoopee!!!! That is of course much more responsibility than what is done in the hangars by mechs everyday, when you know you are the last man to look at an area for next 5 years.

Dave I think you should have more faith in AA, we'll come back, and if we don't, it does not matter what your last paycheck showed. Bragging rights are useless at the grocery store.

 

[Bob Owens]

bob, I understand you have been suspended pending Investigation. Your remarks are a bunch of bull and you know it!
[SIZE= 10pt] [/SIZE]
It's about time! I firmly believe if you do not support the organization you took an oath to represent than you have no business being in the position.
[SIZE= 10pt] [/SIZE]

Yes I have been suspended. On Aug 20 my accuser, Sonny Hall will have three people who work under him render judgment. Robert Gless will be the prosecutor. Sounds fair and impartial right?

Sonny claims that my posts on this sight at the following times Constitute violations of the Constitution.
June 26, 2003 at 753
July 2, 2003 at 4:16:58
July 20, 2003 at 319
July 22, 2003 at 4:16:56
July 28, 2003 at 336, and 5:34:48
July 29, 2003 at 1:32:45, 1:57:05, 3:17:46, 3:39:14, 3:46:50, 4:49:48 and
July 31,2003 at 8:24:25

Several times in the past I’ve been asked if Sonny has taken any sort of retribution against me for my outspokenness. I had always said that he had not. I admitted that despite all that I had heard that in my experience with him in discussion he seemed pretty fair and tolerant of dissenting views. Obviously my opinion has changed. My posts were all consistent with an idea in which we debated on several occasions, the restructuring of unionism within the industry. I also discussed this with Art Luby, Jim Little and Mike Bakala. I was also contacted by Bill Ragan from John Sweeneys office (AFL-CIO) and encouraged to go forward with this. Never did any of these people give warning that working to forward that idea would lead to my removal from office or my membership status being reduced to a member in bad standing. (If he does one, he has to do both. At that point, as an excluded member with no rights I will have no choice but to do everything in my power to bring in another union because I value my right to participate in my union, no matter what its name is.)

You claim that if I don’t support the organization that I have no business being in the position. I support the organization although I’m convinced that in its current form it is both ineffective and harmful to the members of the ATD. This opinion is reinforced by the fact that for over twenty years we have suffered a steep decline in working conditions and real pay that outpaces the rest of the workforce of the whole economy. The concessions that have recently been put in place will likely continue this trend into the next decade. I do not support Sonny Halls and Jim Littles objectives to lower our pay and eliminate most of our benefits. You are basically saying that my loyalty to Sonny Hall ($200,000/yr) and Jim Little ($143,000/yr), two people that are immune to the membership, should come before my loyalty to my membership ($62,000 to $30,000/yr).

Sonny Hall is the one who is violating the Constitution.
Article II (B), To establish through collective bargaining adequate wage standards and retirement benefits, shorter hours of work and improvements in the conditions of employment for the workers in the industry.

- Jim Little, under the authority of Sonny Hall lowered wage standards
- Jim Little increased the hours of work by eliminating one week of vacation, even for those that had only two weeks. Two weeks is a standard that even most non-union workers have. Jim Little reduced our conditions to the point where it is well below many non-union companies.
- The elimination of holiday pay, double time, uniform cleaning, and all the other things that were given up all degrade the conditions of employment.

Not once is it stated that the object of the organization is to increase or maintain the level of employment, however it clearly states that improvements in the conditions of employment for workers in the industry is an objective. Jim Little and Sonny Hall have without question degraded the conditions of employment. Conditions of employment is just that, the conditions under which you work, it is not to be confused with the state of employment which means either employed or unemployed. No where in the Constitution were these guys given the authority to trade off Article II for something that does not exist in the Constitution. They should not have sacrificed adequate wages, which effects retirement, shorter work hours and other conditions, especially when they are not doing the same. The Constitution is clear, they should have resisted all these concessions because they violate the objects of the union, concessions that as Jim Little stated in his letter to the company were “more than adequateâ€. To fall back on the fact that it was passed by the membership is no excuse, those that voted yes did so based upon the expressed direction of the international, a direction that was in conflict with our Constitution.

One thing that you can be sure of is that if Sonny Hall or Jim Little were going to work under these conditions they would have resisted. Neither of these guys are losing anything, Little still gets his $143,000 per year and Hall still gets his $200,000.

It is my belief that the union is the members, not Sonny Hall or Jim Little or you. I’m fighting for them and after Aug 20, it will be up to them to fight. They never had the right to vote for Jim Little, they lost the right to vote on their own contracts, now they are losing their right to choose their own representatives on the local level. Will they accept this like sheep, like Bakala insinuated when he said that ‘unionism is failing because of the members not the leaders’, or will they go on hand pay to remind the union leaders where the dues really come from?