Twu - Local 514 Lies Again!

[RUM@AA]

I understand this was an error, It should have read this I believe,

TWU SOLIDARITY!

No, it really should have read:
We have no idea what we're talking about so we'll just make up some crap as we go along. We know you're all too stupid and lazy to research the truth for yourselves.

And get rid of that stupid Asia emblem you made up. We blew the lid off that twu lie. SASCO has been doing NWA maint. for EIGHT YEARS! It all went there under the IAM. Or should I say the Industrial Asian Mechanics union?

(another great quote from RUM@AA)

. . .another AMFA BOY resorting to name calling again. Is this the only tactic you have?? You are doing wonders for your cause, not to mention you appear to be, oh, say, 7 years old!!

Speaking of doing research, I think you might want to do a little of your own regarding outsourcing. Why don't you try it and then get back to me. . .

OK, Go here:

http://www.oig.dot.gov/show_pdf.php?id=1124
and learn the truth for yourself.

Or read this:

FAA Inspects Too Few Plane Maintenance Contractors, Federal Agency Says
Source: Saint Paul Pioneer Press (St. Paul, Minn.) Publication Date: 07/11/03 (entire article not included here, too long)...
About half of its outsourced maintenance work is done in Asia, Northwest has indicated.

Its Asian maintenance contractors include ST Aviation Services Co. (SASCO), a subsidiary of Singapore Technologies Aerospace.

SASCO has done airframe heavy maintenance work for at least eight years on Northwest's DC-10 and 747 fleets. In Hong Kong, Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Co. (HAECO) has performed heavy maintenance on NWA 747s for more than four years.
The Associated Press and Bloomberg contributed to this report.

Note: AMFA earned representation rights at NWA in 1999.


and BTW, what name did I call anyone? You're the one that called me a "boy". So what are you, a girl?
The "stupid and lazy" part is how the TWU sees it's members. You included. I see it in every CIO post. He thinks we and all other TWU members are too stupid to know the truth and too lazy to investigate for ourselves. He insults our intellegence every time. Maybe you don't have enough to insult, I don't know.


Here, read this: (again, whole article is too long)
NWA's top execs get 630,000 shares BY MARTIN J. MOYLAN
Pioneer Press

Northwest, which has lost $1.6 billion and cut 17,000 employees since the start of 2001, is seeking nearly $1 billion in wage and other concessions from its union employees. Non-union workers also will see their pay cut under a plan the airline says is needed to bring costs in line with reduced revenue.

..................................
17,000! Pilots, Flight Attendants, Ramp, Gate Agents, etc.
Are you going to tell me they're all AMFA's fault? Go ahead, tell me.


Nwa mechanics are making $7 and hour more than you are. They get all their holidays. They lost no vacation! Or sick time.

Oh yeah, thanks so much for saving AA from bankruptcy. Read this:

United skies clearing(again, whole article is too long)
Carrier paints rosy Q3 financial picture, predicts sales boost
By David Kesmodel, Rocky Mountain News
August 21, 2003

Tague said "those that didn't go through what we went through will be competitively disadvantaged." United and US Airways are the only two of the six biggest U.S. network airlines to file for Chapter 11 amid the worst industry slump.


competitively disadvantaged
competitively disadvantaged
competitively disadvantaged
competitively disadvantaged

You protected AA from the federal government taking a good look at their books.
You helped Don Carty collect 8 mil from an airline on "the brink of bankruptcy"
You could have insisted that the membership get a valid ratification vote.
But no... YOU AND SONNY HALL KNOW WHATS BEST FOR US ALL.

Go away

 

[jake]

RUM@AA,

Did twuer get you riled up by calling you a boy? Get over yourself, I gotta say, if your gonna continue to be an AMFA puke, you might need to go trade your skin in for something a little thicker (maybe a opossum hide or something). And all you can come up with is, “are you a girl?†Dude, you need some help, not only with your ideological approach to your arguments but with your testosterone level. We all know that NWA has had maintenance done overseas, for a while now, that’s not the question. The Question is, however did NWA lay people off in order to farm the work out? In the past NWA maintained what we call “ a stable workforceâ€. Immediately (3 days to be exact) after your AMFA boys signed their agreement allowing NWA to farm out work, they laid-off 300 people and shipped out more work. Now, due to that admittedly “untested language†and other unfortunate events, NWA is at the 4500 mark and counting. NWA says they are committed to outsourcing (why would that be?) and there are more lay-offs to come. We’ve all seen the DOT reports that you claim took some real detective work to find. NWA is committed because AMFA’s untested language can’t prevent it, as a matter of fact, the 38% language ALLOWS it! That fact was testified to in front of the PEB by AMFA. What, your superior research skills haven’t led you to that record? It says, AMFA agreed to outsourcing levels “comfortably above the current ratesâ€. Doesn’t that equate to lay-offs? Evidently it does! Oh, and don’t look now, NWA wants 173.3 million in concessions. What happened to AMFA’s “NO CONCESSIONS?†They’ve hired Seneca financial to review the books and changed their position to “NO UNWARRENTED CONCESSIONSâ€. Wow, it’s funny how their attitude has changed.

 

[RUM@AA]

RUM@AA,

Did twuer get you riled up by calling you a boy? Get over yourself, I gotta say, if your gonna continue to be an AMFA puke, you might need to go trade your skin in for something a little thicker (maybe a opossum hide or something). And all you can come up with is, “are you a girl?†Dude, you need some help, not only with your ideological approach to your arguments but with your testosterone level. We all know that NWA has had maintenance done overseas, for a while now, that’s not the question. The Question is, however did NWA lay people off in order to farm the work out? In the past NWA maintained what we call “ a stable workforceâ€. Immediately (3 days to be exact) after your AMFA boys signed their agreement allowing NWA to farm out work, they laid-off 300 people and shipped out more work. Now, due to that admittedly “untested language†and other unfortunate events, NWA is at the 4500 mark and counting. NWA says they are committed to outsourcing (why would that be?) and there are more lay-offs to come. We’ve all seen the DOT reports that you claim took some real detective work to find. NWA is committed because AMFA’s untested language can’t prevent it, as a matter of fact, the 38% language ALLOWS it! That fact was testified to in front of the PEB by AMFA. What, your superior research skills haven’t led you to that record? It says, AMFA agreed to outsourcing levels “comfortably above the current ratesâ€. Doesn’t that equate to lay-offs? Evidently it does! Oh, and don’t look now, NWA wants 173.3 million in concessions. What happened to AMFA’s “NO CONCESSIONS?†They’ve hired Seneca financial to review the books and changed their position to “NO UNWARRENTED CONCESSIONSâ€. Wow, it’s funny how their attitude has changed.

What in the previous IAM language stopped NWA from outsourcing? What?
Answer: Nothing.
What TWU language stops 49.9% of our work from going out?
Answer: Nothing
Well, ok, low wages may keep the work in house, for now.
But that only benifits the TWUs bank account, not the AMTs.
How does it benifit 20 year AMTs at AA to have OSMs? It doesn't.
There is nothing in the AMFA language that "allows" more outsourcing than the IAM "allowed".
Face facts: low wage third party overhaul companies are taking overhaul away from the airlines. Thank Southwest! Are the union shops willing to lower wages to their level to keep overhaul work in house? Obviously the TWU is because they are unable to obtain language to keep the work.
"nothing in this article guarentees the maintenance of the present volume of work". Your answer is to lower the licensed AMT to the level of the unlicensed, nonunion mechanic in order to keep jobs. You obviously never worked the line.
AMFA HASN'T TAKEN A CONCESSION YET. And if they are forced to its because the twu led the way,down.
I say let Fleet service make low wages, not AMTs. AMTs should not be dictated to by baggage handlers.

And if you're going to continue to be a TWU piece of crap, start packing your bags.

 

[jake]

RUM@aa,

At least your alias represents your opinions, RUMOR! The IAM contract maintained that ALL work belonged to the Union. Will there always be some farm-outs? Sure, but you don’t give up your rights by allowing for a certain percentage to be outsourced, WITHOUT A GRIEVANCE! The TWU and IAM both have committees that try to monitor RO’s and a requirement for the company to share info before farm-outs occur, as well as arbitration to show what work is ours. Is the system infallible? Absolutely not, (is any?) it requires a great deal of membership involvement to monitor. However, AMFA chose to test farm out language at NWA and the result has been more lay-offs and an unprecedented farm out rate. Once again, the PEB record says that NWA cited the principal work rule concession was - “permit subcontracting at a level comfortably above current ratesâ€￾. What does “comfortably above current ratesâ€￾ mean to you? And, anything below 38%, you have NO RIGHT TO GRIEVE. And once again, another AMFA LIE, where did you get 49.9%. AMFA hasn’t taken a concession yet? They have taken about 10,000 of them, that's about how many people are on the street between UAL and NWA, thanks in part to AMFA. Oh well, you are an AMFA puke aren’t you? You'd rather farm out!

 

[RV4]

Any of you so-called "informers", care to explain this data?

 

[FWAAA]

Any of you so-called "informers", care to explain this data?

Looks similar to the rate increases for medical insurance suffered by just about every man, woman and child in the USA these days (regardless of whether they belong to a union), except your increases are smaller than mine. Welcome to paying for what you consume. B)

 

[RV4]

Looks similar to the rate increases for medical insurance suffered by just about every man, woman and child in the USA these days (regardless of whether they belong to a union), except your increases are smaller than mine. Welcome to paying for what you consume. B)

What other pay and benefits cuts did you take in this "shared sacrifice" or other wise known as the...


Arpey,
TURN AROUND and BEND OVER PLAN!

 

[jake]

What other pay and benefits cuts did you take in this "shared sacrifice" or other wise known as the...


Arpey,
TURN AROUND and BEND OVER PLAN!

Dave,
I don’t recall ever saying that I enjoy being hosed by the company, but it was certainly better than taking the route you propose. Nobody thinks that the company is “sharing the sacrifice†but by your posts, you seem to think you could go anywhere and “weld†for more than $30.00 an hour. There’s only one reason that you haven’t pursued that avenue and that’s because ……you can’t!!

P. S.
When’s the last time you welded anyway? It’s kinda hard to do that from the CAM building isn’t it?

 

[RV4]

Removed by Moderator

 

[jake]

Dave (Mo),
That was a very intellectual personal attack! (And funny too), I’m impressed even if you don’t know whom you’re talking to. However, I’m glad to see that you admit that your wrong. That being said, maybe you should be thankful that the TWU membership chose to do the right thing instead of take your misleading advice. Had the membership listened to you and your AMFA boys, half of them would be in the unemployment line just like half of the mechanics and related at UAL. Your problem Dave is that you think you are smarter than everyone else. Fortunately people see through your devious façade and make the right choices. The majority of the TWU are level headed, intelligent and genuinely concerned about their Union brothers and sisters. You and your kind though are the selfish primadonnas that, attack like cancer at the first sign of trouble. You don’t help, you’re not constructive, and you couldn’t care less about the people around you. That is why you are willing to sacrifice others jobs to promote your cause. If you are one of those who are so bold to say,â€￾I’d be happy to take the lay-off to preserve the payâ€￾, you, my friend still have time. I’d be happy to provide you with a resignation form, that is, unless you are too cowardly to “walk the walkâ€￾ and not just “talk the talkâ€￾. So step up to the plate Dave and “take one for the teamâ€￾, or show your boys how big a “liarâ€￾ you really are.

 

[Steve Connell]

....BTW...reference the increase in medical coverage. First 5% to be paid by the company, next 5% by the contract personnel, any increase over 10% incurred by the company.

hmmmm...was that an AMFA decision also? Sounded contractual. And yes it hurts when jake hits the nail on the head...... :blink:

 

[RV4]

....BTW...reference the increase in medical coverage. First 5% to be paid by the company, next 5% by the contract personnel, any increase over 10% incurred by the company.

hmmmm...was that an AMFA decision also? Sounded contractual. And yes it hurts when jake hits the nail on the head...... :blink:

That 5% cap is ONLY if you are on the 80/20 Company Plan.

MOST TWU members are on the POS or PPO plans and the cap was just lifted. The HMO plans are now WITHOUT increase caps.

Steve, maybe you would like to take a shot at explaining why the company gave the TWU $20 Miilion per year credit in so-called "active engagement" meetings that led up to the "without further ratification" of the Industry Leading Concessions?

How does American obtain $20 Million per year savings for the company if the contract did not change? Therefore some form of increase must occur? It cannot be both ways, if there was no change in the contract, then there is NO savings. The fact is, you should read the "PILOTS" me too language that was removed from the contract, and then come back on this bulletin board and do some of your spin/explaining.

So tell us Mr. TWU, er uh, Mr. I seek appointment to Union Office, how does that add up? I will refrain from calling you a fool, but you should come up with some answers to the questions above, so that you don't confirm your guilt in that matter.

Care to share with us what plan you are on, your current out-of-pocket cost, what change in your bi-weekly payroll deduction you have coming, that will be your part of $20 Million Company Savings?

The only nail jake keeps hitting on the head, is the last nail in the TWU coffin.

Maby soon you will learn, just because the TWU says something, sure as hell doesn't make it a fact!

 

[Checking it Out]

Dave you need to go back and read the Information before you reply, You are kinda off a little!!!!!

 

[James T. Kirk]

Well I see that amfa Dave is back to posting his bogus charts, and telling the side of a story that fits his spin. Dave you can’t hide from the fact that the line Presidents were trying to get rid of the Title 2 people when they had their meeting with Sonny Hall, oh yes that is the same people you and the rest of your amfa cronies have been trying to get to sign your yellow cards. That is about normal everywhere else amfa is at amfa has had on problem with getting rid of that type of work. Well I guess that is what you can expect from UNION BUSTERS. Dave, are you on the pay role of the national right to work foundation?

 

[jake]

Dave(Mo),
Correct, in fact the 80/20 plan is the only “contractualâ€￾ plan requirement that must be fulfilled by the company. However, the 5% “contractualâ€￾ cap helps keep the other plans from increasing their monetary requirements. Your claim (due to the lifting of the pilot cap, there would be a 104 percent increase in monthly payments for family medical coverage) was based on the lie that under the contract we are responsible for half of any increased costs in health premiums. As we made clear under Article 41 our members can be forced to pay no more than the second five percent of any increase in health care premiums. Frankly, it must be difficult for you to interpret such difficult language, so it might behoove you to consult one of the TWU’s officers that are trained on the issue so that you don’t continue to spread false information (don’t tell me, you know more than they do, right?). Further, the TWU did not agree to lift the pilot cap - the pilots lifted it and we were no longer entitled to their formula by virtue of our "me too" clause. We insisted, however, on being credited with the cost savings (20 million) the Company realized by the lifting of the pilot cap for our members and returning to the old formula in Article 41. Finally, there was never any requirement under our contract (or even the pilot contract) to apply the pilot cap to the non-contractual plans such as POS. The costs of such plans were always within the discretion of the Company for all work groups.