Twu - Local 514 Lies Again!

[jake]

Dave (Mo) and Ken (I don’t have a name for you yet, but it won’t be long),
You guys give yourselves WAY too much credit. Don’t flatter yourselves by thinking anyone is “grasping” (did you mean gasping?) or fearful of your ignorance. Why didn’t you post ALL of page 26 from the PEB? In 1993, NWA mechanics took a pay cut and received 300 million in work rule concessions from NWA in return. The PEB RECORD CLEARLY SHOWS that AMFA gave all of those gained work rules back to NWA to alleviate the “churn” problem in exchange for money. (Notice these rules had to do with bidding by seniority?) By doing so, AMFA financed the mechanics raise by giving work rule concessions back to NWA. And now there are senior mechanics that have been bumped and even chosen lay off because they are tired of being bumped. And just a note: AMFA doesn’t count those mechanics that got tired of being bumped as “laid off” because they “chose” lay off status. AMFA took credit for delivering a pay rate increase and blamed the IAM for a bad contract. Here is the language:

“AMFA should be credited with having brought 300 million in work rule concessions to the table to finance its economic demands in the prospective agreement.”

The 300 million in concessions that they (AMFA) brought was gained in 1993 by the IAM. How much more clear can that be? Even a “stupid” or “ignorant” mechanic can figure that out. It’s you “brain surgeons” and “rocket scientists” that can’t seem to “grasp” (or is it gasp?) the concept. And frankly David, you didn’t stop being “stupid” in ’95, it just got worse! Now you and your cronies are attempting the same lying and “chaos” diluted tactics here at AA. Keep on lying Dave and Ken, the boys and I will keep exposing you as the liars and spin-doctors that you are.

 

[RV4]

The 300 million in concessions that they (AMFA) brought was gained in 1993 by the IAM. How much more clear can that be? Even a “stupid†or “ignorant†mechanic can figure that out. It’s you “brain surgeons†and “rocket scientists†that can’t seem to “grasp†(or is it gasp?) the concept. And frankly David, you didn’t stop being “stupid†in ’95, it just got worse! Now you and your cronies are attempting the same lying and “chaos†diluted tactics here at AA. Keep on lying Dave and Ken, the boys and I will keep exposing you as the liars and spin-doctors that you are.

I fear that only a TWU supporter would consider a concession a "GAIN". Please tell us not one of the appointed or elected dictators of the TWU?

Where is the lie exactly that you have exposed? B)

I believe this thread started with a documented TWU lie regarding Mesaba, not one myself or Ken propagated.

Btw, are you happy with your current pay and benefit package? How much more would you have given to save or create even more jobs?

 

[jake]

Dave (Mo),
Gosh for a brain surgeon, you are really having trouble with this aren’t you? Maybe the facts are confusing for you because they are too simple for your complex way of thinking. Here it is, one more time, slowly now try not to stumble, ok? NWA gave (concessions) to the IAM, and AMFA gave them back to NWA and in the process violated senior mechanics rights. Now that wasn’t so difficult was it?
As for the lies you tell, it isn’t only this thread. If your mouth is moving, you’re lying. Where would you like to start? Soon people will realize you have your own agenda. I think if our good readers go back and look at our previous conversations that they are smart enough to figure it out.
If anyone says they are happy with the current contractual state, I’d say they probably are not telling the truth. That being said, it’s better than what would have occurred had AA gone into bankruptcy. You have even admitted that you can’t prove that we would’ve. We now have judicial documents that say, if fact, the TWU was correct in the path that we took. The rulings are very clear. NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF. You can spin them (the judges rulings) or disagree but the district court judges don’t spin, their language speaks volumes about your argument and what would’ve happened had AA gone into bankruptcy. The membership chose to save their jobs and their futures at AA.

 

[Checking it Out]

Jake you are correct and I do not Understand why these Individuals are hard Headed. The Layoffs show this to be true, 50% and counting.

 

[Jim Martin]

Jake,

The meeting I was at in New York (562 joint E-board and section chairman) the vote was to preserve the contract language, and take the layoffs. I believe TUL and MCI chose to save jobs. So what did we get, ILConsessions and layoffs, with more to come. Good job TWU. NOT

Have a nice day.

 

[Steve Connell]

Jim...just possibly we at MCI saved our ability to make a living where we are at, not having to chase the airline industry aroung the US means quite a bit. It is also real hard to find anyone to admit to voting for concessions...we did...and payday is still Friday... it's funny how most of the peeps that push a "vote NO" issue to concessions are not the ones that will be hitting the bricks and telling their families "well honey...we showed them ... oh by the way..it only cost us 60K a year"


You expect solidarity in a vote when ya cannot even get it in which union you want...and it's funny how if we are not pro AMFA then we are addressed as whatever lame name you all can come up with...I always thought you promoted something by stating it's assets...not by degrading the competition..unless of course it has no merit or asset. Smoke and mirrors makes you appealing to a few..but not here..sell a t-shirt and save the world....jeesh.....SC

 

[Jim Martin]

Steve,

It's a bit off the subject but, I believe I did hit the road to DFW from PHL, due to the layoffs. So I believe some AA empoyee's are still chasing the airline industry, when former TWAers are sitting pretty in MCI.

And for the record, I haven't degraded you yet, and I fail to the asset of the TWU.

 

[Steve Connell]

Jim...when I stated "not by degrading the competition" I was referring to degrading the TWU..not me personally. Also if ya look around the industry there are multitudes of personnel furloughed that are not repped by the TWU. With over 700 a/c on the ground in our industry it is no wonder that you "hit the road to DFW from PHL, due to the layoffs."

....and really Jim...am I sitting pretty @ MCI...my seniority went from 780522 to 010410...that only lost me a couple of years with your approval. Here's one asset from the TWU...they saved YOUR SENIORITY!!. But forget all they have done in your best interest and continue peddling cotton....with respect...SC

 

[Jim Martin]

Now Steve, you lost no seniority in MCI, where you want to be or STL. I'd say Kasher hooked you up. Also I was in TUL at the time we took over TWA and they voted to put you on the bottom of the list also.

Steve not to be an A$$ but, you are very lucky to still have a job and if I were you I'd probably love the TWU also. With the great scope clause we have. It's a mute point but no AA union employee employed prior to 4-9-01 should be on the street before all TWAers. But that is just not the way it is so I live with it. Sometimes I wonder who bought who.

Have a nice day.

 

[Steve Connell]

Jim...had TWA not been purchased bt AA then yes..we @ MCI would have been more than likely looking for work...but we WERE purchased with our assets...and your "Another For Me Assoc" fits your postings and beliefs well.

Had AA and TWU gone by AMFA's preamble of "respecting the seniority rights of others" then no decision or vote would have been necessary, we would have been dovetailed.

The fact that mismanagement and Icahn led to TWA's desmise is not a reflection of the local unionism here @ MCI. We are willing to train some of you "for me" members in true unionism. I have heard 2 years worth of excuses from your members of how they did not vote and how Kasher saved us here...by your own greed you have divided this union, keep up management's work...you make life easy for them...with respect...SC

 

[Buck]

Jim...had TWA not been purchased bt AA then yes..we @ MCI would have been more than likely looking for work...but we WERE purchased with our assets...and your "Another For Me Assoc" fits your postings and beliefs well.

Had AA and TWU gone by AMFA's preamble of "respecting the seniority rights of others" then no decision or vote would have been necessary, we would have been dovetailed.

The fact that mismanagement and Icahn led to TWA's desmise is not a reflection of the local unionism here @ MCI. We are willing to train some of you "for me" members in true unionism. I have heard 2 years worth of excuses from your members of how they did not vote and how Kasher saved us here...by your own greed you have divided this union, keep up management's work...you make life easy for them...with respect...SC

Just a little recent history concerning the placement of mechanics when AA aquired or merged with another airline.

AirCal: These mechanics were already TWU so they were given there seniority by "Dovetail".

Reno: These mechanics were given all of their Union Seniority, which was none, therefore they were place at the bottom of the seniority list.

TWA: Allegheny-Mohawk provisions? Blessed by the TWU and the IAM?

 

[Steve Connell]

Air Cal was already TWU so they were dovetailed...ohhhh..but they were another company when purchased and those members were no different than ours...AFL-CIO members...how about those boys Jim? Should they also be layed off prior to your guys with 3 years seniority? Life isn't always fair to "For Me" peeps...SC

 

[Buck]

Air Cal was already TWU so they were dovetailed...ohhhh..but they were another company when purchased and those members were no different than ours...AFL-CIO members...how about those boys Jim? Should they also be layed off prior to your guys with 3 years seniority? Life isn't always fair to "For Me" peeps...SC

Remember the AirCal mechanics were already TWU and considered members of the TWU International. I am not sure whether the AFL-CIO was a factor at the time. We at Local 514 TUL were told that AirCal was already TWU. Yes there is a difference, TWA was IAM......

 

[Jim Martin]

Steve,

Air Cal was at least the same union, TWU. That makes some since. You know what though, you got what you got and your right, life isn't always fair. Your attack that I'm a for me peep is totally unfounded. I've attempeted to help bring change to the TWU. I've participated in the TWU process. There are people on this board that can vouch for that. The bottom line is it can't be changed. It wasn't long ago I spoke of some of the same points that you do today. Until there is acountabilty at the top, ie: Little, Yingst, Gless, and others then we do control our future. Even the Presidents Council is unable to be productive due to the structure that gives Randy a role call vote. The international reps have to be held acountable for there decisions. If you think the TWU can be changed, good luck, I hope you succeed.

Have a nice day.

 

[Buck]

One thing I have learned in my quest to remove the TWU from it's entrenched representational position, is that people from different parts of the country view unionism in different ways. Maybe the mechanics at MCI (TWA) can acheive what we that have lived under the thumb of the TWU have not.