TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[NYer]

I seem to recall the association supporters that frequently post on this site not too long ago claiming that nobody would be forced into the IAMPF. That you would have a choice to continue the 401k match. Now that more information has been brought to light, the association has agreed to negotiate that everyone be part of the IAMPF. No mention of a choice. Ultimately a contract has to be voted on, but if the IAMPF is included in every TA that is brought forward then eventually it will pass. Not much of a leap to think our frozen pensions wouldn't
suffer the same fate.

 
It will be a choice.

 

[NYer]

The fact that 2/3 of the membership is currently TWU but has 1/2 the representation in the Association AND is chaired by the IAM for the first 2 years is completely beyond the pale in terms of fairness. Especially since a JCBA that will dictate so many important issues for the future is to be negotiated with the minority in charge! Why would anyone in the TWU membership be excited about the prospects for good representation in this proposed Association?

 
You guys are against the TWU as a viable representative. You guys are against the IAM as a viable representative. You guys are against the IBT as a viable representative. However, the so called savior, AMFA, isn't even trying to organize the mechanics and there seems to be little to action, at the grassroots level, in trying to get cards submitted to the NMB despite having the last 7 months to do so.
 
Being against the Association, at this point, is par for the course.

 

[NYer]

He is on retainer for the local. He IS the retirement guy for local 514 if you want to split hairs. That could explain his candid answers with no spin!! Thanks for mentioning that he isnt controlled by the twu. He may be off retainer now though. It is ironic that you posted earlier about the chance of the iam winning an election and gaining control but failed to mention we are handing it to them on a silver platter if this goes through.

 
So, in your view, after the Association is in place the IAM is going to handle your grievances, your local work issues, your discipline issues and will be collecting your dues. Is that your position?
 
As far as the other point, it is clear you'll agree with the opinion of anyone that has the same as yours.

 

[700UW]

http://www.atd142.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/LOC-relocation-OCC-to-IOC.pdf

 

[toroshark]

You guys are against the TWU as a viable representative. You guys are against the IAM as a viable representative. You guys are against the IBT as a viable representative. However, the so called savior, AMFA, isn't even trying to organize the mechanics and there seems to be little to action, at the grassroots level, in trying to get cards submitted to the NMB despite having the last 7 months to do so.
 
Being against the Association, at this point, is par for the course.

You never read where I was against the TWU or for anyone else representing myself. I definitely frown upon the heavy handed self-serving tactics the TWU intl.employs at times though. And this decision to force us into this Association is a perfect example of what I despise.

 

[scorpion 2]

So, in your view, after the Association is in place the IAM is going to handle your grievances, your local work issues, your discipline issues and will be collecting your dues. Is that your position?
 
As far as the other point, it is clear you'll agree with the opinion of anyone that has the same as yours.

Its his job and area of expertise. You on the other hand have an opinion!
Obviously you are having trouble dealing with it.

Who manages the iamnpf?

 

[NYer]

You never read where I was against the TWU or for anyone else representing myself. I definitely frown upon the heavy handed self-serving tactics the TWU intl.employs at times though. And this decision to force us into this Association is a perfect example of what I despise.

 
I guess you also despise the fact that when you took this job you didn't have a chance to vote who was to represent you. You inherited the TWU with the job, then again, you probably has the chance to look for a position that had the union you'd rather be represented by.

 

[toroshark]

Wrong again bootlicker. I was perfectly happy to hire on knowing TWU would be my representative. Perfectly happy to continue with TWU. Would like the locals to have the power to negotiate and represent the membership that ELECTED them. I do dislike when the INTL reps who are unelected dictate things to the contrary of the membership's will. Which is exactly what this Association is.

 

[toroshark]

Truth be told, if we had a legitimate vote on this representation issue my preferred order would be. 1 twu. 2 amfa 3 no union 4 IAM. And lastly 5 the association

 

[MetalMover]

 
Keep pointing. There is a completely new set of faces and names to blame, we'll just keep adding them to the long list of all those that are conspiring against mechanics.
 
Oh I get it....it's everyone except the mechanics' fault.

Funny how you can't deny what I posted. Try refuting the facts that under the TWU's watch, mechanic work has been lost and gladly given to fleet service and/or outsourced all together.
Please try to prove that fact wrong...Let's see how you would feel if another classification of worker were created way below your pay scale and they started shifting work to that group. It has been done in M&R with first the SRP's and then the OSM's. AND THIS WAS WAY BEFORE BANKRUPTCY....
Now it is done in automotive and facilities maintenance with the MSP's.....Maybe fleet service is next.
You are correct about one thing...It is the mechanics' fault for not ridding ourselves of the TWU and our fault alone. 
If your work group were at the bottom of industry , you would be seeking other representation. But since the TWU has done better for you than they have for mechanics, it is understandable why you would not want to leave them.
But I can't wait to see the responses when JCBA finally arrives and you are not offered what you think you're going to be offered. but then again, you are so eager to get a contract and that 4%, you might be willing to bend over further.

 

[AANOTOK]

Let's see how you would feel if another classification of worker were created way below your pay scale and they started shifting work to that group. It has been done in M&R with first the SRP's and then the .

They did, they are called part time and Eagle/Envoy...we have also had a lot of our work outsourced as well.
For some reason, some of you guys fail to grasp that fleet has lost a lot as well. I  know, I know, you guys have lost much more. But when you guys complain, you always seem to focus on how well fleet is doing (at your cost by some) and yet for some reason fail to mention how fleet has suffered some pretty significant loses as well. WE ALL have paid a pretty hefty price!

 

[MetalMover]

They did, they are called part time and Eagle/Envoy...we have also had a lot of our work outsourced as well.
For some reason, some of you guys fail to grasp that fleet has lost a lot as well. I  know, I know, you guys have lost much more. But when you guys complain, you always seem to focus on how well fleet is doing (at your cost by some) and yet for some reason fail to mention how fleet has suffered some pretty significant loses as well. WE ALL have paid a pretty hefty price!

I never said you guys didn't suffer any losses.. But yet there are those like NYer who are still happy with the TWU...
But lets be honest here, mechanics have lost more  work to fleet service AND outsourcing than any other work group. I understand full and well how the loss of cabin service affected your group. But yet NYer wants to stay with TWU.
The TWU gladly gave deicing, receive and dispatch to fleet service over thirty years ago. I don't recall fleet service saying..."HEY WE SHOULD BE GOOD UNION PEOPLE AND NOT DO THIS." But no,  the TWU sold everyone a bill of good in 1983 and gladly took that work from maintenance. "hey better than outsourcing."
These TWU concessions occurred BEFORE any bankruptcy. SO spare me the WE HAD A GUN TO OUR HEADS" defense.
 
And as far as fleet service gaining at the expense of the mechanics...Let me give you a history lesson. And this is true of every legacy carrier....In the good old days, when there were no separate locals, mechanics were always the minority. With the exception of the maintenance base, mechanics could never get elected to any local president or vice president slot. Our voices were not heard, just ignored. So come negotiation time, we had either cabin service or line cargo people bargaining on our behalf....And you know how that turned out? When it came time to money....the response of these negotiators was "well we have to keep the MAJORITY happy. So mechanics lagged in the compensation department.
Prove me wrong.....I work with many mechanics from TWA, Eastern and PANAM...and that's the way it was there as well.
 
So true your work group suffered as well....But let's talk compensation now.....is your work group at or near top of industry? Mechanics are not..We are still at the bottom...lower than JetBlue now.....The TWU is responsible because they have managed to appease the large voting block of TUL and some at the line stations to give in to the threats of "THIS IS THE BEST YOU'RE GOING TO GET" and YOU MECHANICS NEED TO LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS."
 
Again prove me wrong.

 

[NYer]

Wrong again bootlicker. I was perfectly happy to hire on knowing TWU would be my representative. Perfectly happy to continue with TWU. Would like the locals to have the power to negotiate and represent the membership that ELECTED them. I do dislike when the INTL reps who are unelected dictate things to the contrary of the membership's will. Which is exactly what this Association is.

 
The Presidents do negotiate and represent their Members. The issues becomes when you don't get what you want, then it becomes a conspiracy theory.
 
Or when leaders you agree with tell you they can get you what you want, but then make excuses and blame everyone else when they can't. You choose who you believe, but if you don't realize how those that you believe in haven't delivered then you will surely continue to be disappointed.

 

[NYer]

Truth be told, if we had a legitimate vote on this representation issue my preferred order would be. 1 twu. 2 amfa 3 no union 4 IAM. And lastly 5 the association

 
And therefore we should value the opinion of someone that rather not be represented rather than to have any other type of representation they don't agree with.
 
You want to make the argument that being non-union is preferred, than to be with the IAM or the Association. I would say you are in the depths of the minority on that issue.
 
....But it's very telling

 

[NYer]

Funny how you can't deny what I posted. Try refuting the facts that under the TWU's watch, mechanic work has been lost and gladly given to fleet service and/or outsourced all together.
Please try to prove that fact wrong...Let's see how you would feel if another classification of worker were created way below your pay scale and they started shifting work to that group. It has been done in M&R with first the SRP's and then the OSM's. AND THIS WAS WAY BEFORE BANKRUPTCY....
Now it is done in automotive and facilities maintenance with the MSP's.....Maybe fleet service is next.
You are correct about one thing...It is the mechanics' fault for not ridding ourselves of the TWU and our fault alone. 
If your work group were at the bottom of industry , you would be seeking other representation. But since the TWU has done better for you than they have for mechanics, it is understandable why you would not want to leave them.
But I can't wait to see the responses when JCBA finally arrives and you are not offered what you think you're going to be offered. but then again, you are so eager to get a contract and that 4%, you might be willing to bend over further.

 
I'll agree with you, if you would also agree that AA has more mechanics per aircraft than any other airline and we have more heavy maintenance than any other airline. Deal?
 
BTW...other title groups did have lower paying positions in their CBA, like building cleaners and junior fleet service clerks, but those were negotiated out of the CBA's in later agreements. You can come together and move forward of you can wallow in what has been without trying to move towards what can be.
 
The airline has given the APA and the APFA wages which surpass Delta by 7%. If the maintenance group is the last in the industry, then 7% above Delta is upward movement, and we haven't even sat down to negotiate.
 
So with news, what comes out of some of the Local leaders? That's not enough. We need to demand 40%...FORTY PERCENT.
 
THAT, is why mechanics don't progress...