TWU/IAM Association Poll

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
If you want the top of the industry pay, shouldn't you be courting the IBT, instead of AMFA?

 
You must be out of your Mind Look at UAL, they hate them and are now collecting cards to switch back to AMFA.
 
The CAL/UAL guys are the same union and have not gotten a joint CBA in what 5 yrs, have not even merged the seniority list. They have different benefits as well.
 
The union meetings are full of the industrial unions truckers/butchers/bakers/candlestickmakers. Airline people make up a fraction of the people.
They also have a multicompany pension plan which is in trouble. Hoffa does what ever he wants you know nothing about your suggestion.

 

[MetalMover]

 
I'm not obsessed, it's everyone's right to seek something they believe is better. If anything, Metal, I've been encouraging the AMFA supporters to get cracking with those cards. When the NMB comes out with the Association there is a 30 day window to submit cards and bring another choice onto the ballot. If that is what you want, then you should be working towards it and not just complaining things aren't going your way.
 
The submission to the NMB was made in August, so I sure hope you guys have been sitting idle when you have this great opportunity to get your choice included.

One would think the TWU would do a better job representing the mechanics knowing that eventually they will be booted out. Once we are truly one carrier, then between the LAA and LUS votes, we can get it done. Many mechanics want change very badly. As long as the TWU is representing us, there is no bright outlook.

 

[NYer]

I am against the alliance..Plain and simple.. Have an election between the TWU and the IAM...that is what SHOULD be happening.and...guess what? The majority TWU membership will prevail.
I do not want the alliance.

 
So let me see if I understand. YOU have been on these pages for years, sharing with everyone that the TWU is a terrible organization that has kept the mechanics it represents at the bottom of the industry....but now, at the same time you want to make the case of the TWU prevailing in an election to pick it to represent even more Members?
 
Shouldn't you be getting cards signed to get AMFA on the ballot? I mean, you guys have had since August to make this campaign to get the preferred organization included on a ballot. Instead of doing that, you're demanding a vote so you can pick the organization that's been portrayed as the worst in the industry? That's a bit off, sir.

 

[NYer]

One would think the TWU would do a better job representing the mechanics knowing that eventually they will be booted out. Once we are truly one carrier, then between the LAA and LUS votes, we can get it done. Many mechanics want change very badly. As long as the TWU is representing us, there is no bright outlook.

 
Then get it done. Everyone wants it badly, stop wasting time looking for a TWU vote....get the cards signed and force the issue. I mean it should be very, very easy since you seem to believe you have an overwhelming call for change.
 
And by the way, consider this. If you force the IAM to take the TWU or if you vote the TWU over the IAM...wouldn't that make a change of organizations later in the process more difficult, because you'll split the vote between those that want to return to the IAM, the AMFA supporters and the TWU diehards. Seems that plan doesn't benefit you...does it?
 
Get those cards signed, Brother.

 

[MetalMover]

 
So let me see if I understand. YOU have been on these pages for years, sharing with everyone that the TWU is a terrible organization that has kept the mechanics it represents at the bottom of the industry....but now, at the same time you want to make the case of the TWU prevailing in an election to pick it to represent even more Members?
 
Shouldn't you be getting cards signed to get AMFA on the ballot? I mean, you guys have had since August to make this campaign to get the preferred organization included on a ballot. Instead of doing that, you're demanding a vote so you can pick the organization that's been portrayed as the worst in the industry? That's a bit off, sir.

Yes. What have I said repeatedly? NO ALLIANCE......there should be an election between the TWU and the IAM....Why do I believe this? because the Alliance Agreement was made WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE MEMBERS OF BOTH UNIONS! I have also said that as much as I dislike the TWU, I would vote for them over the IAM. I would NOT vote for the IAM just to prove a point.
This, however, does NOT mean I will would NOT vote the TWU out. 
How about this? When the TWU pushes for a truly industry leading contract and actually achieves it WITHOUT further concessions, I MIGHT change my mind? Sound fair?

 

[NYer]

 
You must be out of your Mind Look at UAL, they hate them and are now collecting cards to switch back to AMFA.
 
The CAL/UAL guys are the same union and have not gotten a joint CBA in what 5 yrs, have not even merged the seniority list. They have different benefits as well.
 
The union meetings are full of the industrial unions truckers/butchers/bakers/candlestickmakers. Airline people make up a fraction of the people.
They also have a multicompany pension plan which is in trouble. Hoffa does what ever he wants you know nothing about your suggestion.

 
That's curious because there are "leaders" on these blogs that point towards the UPS wage rates as the target for JCBA negotiations. Those mechanics are represented by the IBT. Hmmmm. That's a bit curious.
 
You want AMFA, but they're not top of the industry in wages. Then again, you want top of the industry wages, but not the IBT....
 
OK, then, never mind. Carry on.

 

[MetalMover]

 
That's curious because there are "leaders" on these blogs that point towards the UPS wage rates as the target for JCBA negotiations. Those mechanics are represented by the IBT. Hmmmm. That's a bit curious.
 
You want AMFA, but they're not top of the industry in wages. Then again, you want top of the industry wages, but not the IBT....
 
OK, then, never mind. Carry on.

I recall the IBT screwing us over? What do you recall? 

 

[NYer]

Yes. What have I said repeatedly? NO ALLIANCE......there should be an election between the TWU and the IAM....Why do I believe this? because the Alliance Agreement was made WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE MEMBERS OF BOTH UNIONS! I have also said that as much as I dislike the TWU, I would vote for them over the IAM. I would NOT vote for the IAM just to prove a point.
This, however, does NOT mean I will would NOT vote the TWU out. 
How about this? When the TWU pushes for a truly industry leading contract and actually achieves it WITHOUT further concessions, I MIGHT change my mind? Sound fair?

 
If you want industry leading, some of the "leaders" point towards the UPS rates and they're under the IBT, but you want AMFA. OK, so there's a little work to be done there.
 
So, if I understand. You want AMFA over the TWU, but that's not a choice at the moment. So, for you, the right thing to happen is to have a vote between the TWU and the IAM. You don't want the IAM so you'll vote for the TWU. But when the times comes you'll vote against the TWU in place of AMFA and hope they can get you industry leading like the IBT got for UPS. Right? Phew!
 
Oh, BTW! If you are so passionate about things happening with the consent of the Members, then you should be in favor of Roll Calls since that is the ability of the leadership to give each Member in their Local a voice on issues that concerns their future.

 

[NYer]

I recall the IBT screwing us over? What do you recall? 

 
I recall leaders pointing towards UPS wages and their IBT.
 
Isn't this whole thing about changing the TWU in order get someone that will achieve an industry leading contract? If so, other mechanics have made the UPS rates the industry leading target. So are we going after industry leading or are we just looking for a change to AMFA and hope for the best?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
That's curious because there are "leaders" on these blogs that point towards the UPS wage rates as the target for JCBA negotiations. Those mechanics are represented by the IBT. Hmmmm. That's a bit curious.
 
You want AMFA, but they're not top of the industry in wages. Then again, you want top of the industry wages, but not the IBT....
 
OK, then, never mind. Carry on.

 
 
The UPS guys have an autonomous Local separate from the IBT unlike what is at CAL/UAL.
 
The local is lead by maintenance people not grocery clerks or truckers.
 
Look up IBT Local 2727, then look up the IBT local in MIA/LAX/SFO and see the difference in its leaders.
 
Leaders of what the TWU, They are trying to keep the job they have they spew the bs just like the rest of them.
 
In My opinion of the three top industrial unions in the airlines the IAM would be the top, then the TWU then the IBT.
 
I want a union that I can remove officers, be independant from Ramp/stores, attend negotiations. If any union other than AMFA was around I would weigh in the merits of them and pick between them and AMFA. But as far as I know AMFA is the only one that I can have all of what I want.

 

[700UW]

So if you don't live in SDF how do you attend a union meeting?

 

[Vortilon]

 
That's curious because there are "leaders" on these blogs that point towards the UPS wage rates as the target for JCBA negotiations. Those mechanics are represented by the IBT. Hmmmm. That's a bit curious.
 
You want AMFA, but they're not top of the industry in wages. Then again, you want top of the industry wages, but not the IBT....
 
OK, then, never mind. Carry on.

 
 
What you don't understand - is the special arrangement the UPS AMTs have as far as their IBT representation is concerned.  They are the only ones in their local, and are essentially isolated from the main body of the corruption within the IBT.  As close to AMFA type representation as you can have. On the other hand, if God forbid, the AA AMTs had voted in the IBT last year - the DFW AMTs would have been relegated to a IBT local out of Houston.  In other words, stuck in the "catch all union" mix yet again - out numbered, and irrelevant.  The only difference is instead of a bus drivers union, we would be in a truck drivers union - quite literally.  That's why the IBT won't work at AA.

 

[NYer]

 
 
The UPS guys have an autonomous Local separate from the IBT unlike what is at CAL/UAL.
 
The local is lead by maintenance people not grocery clerks or truckers.
 
Look up IBT Local 2727, then look up the IBT local in MIA/LAX/SFO and see the difference in its leaders.
 
Leaders of what the TWU, They are trying to keep the job they have they spew the bs just like the rest of them.
 
In My opinion of the three top industrial unions in the airlines the IAM would be the top, then the TWU then the IBT.
 
I want a union that I can remove officers, be independant from Ramp/stores, attend negotiations. If any union other than AMFA was around I would weigh in the merits of them and pick between them and AMFA. But as far as I know AMFA is the only one that I can have all of what I want.

 
So the arguments is not about industry leading wages and benefits but rather for "a union that you can remove officers, be independent from Ramp/stores, attend[ing] negotiations."
 
Those are your priorities.
 
All this stuff about UPS wages is not really part of the arguments?

 

[MetalMover]

 
So the arguments is not about industry leading wages and benefits but rather for "a union that you can remove officers, be independent from Ramp/stores, attend[ing] negotiations."
 
Those are your priorities.
 
All this stuff about UPS wages is not really part of the arguments?

What is wrong with removing officers who fail the membership?
Should they be lifetime appointments like the Supreme Court Justices?

 

[NYer]

 
 
What you don't understand - is the special arrangement the UPS AMTs have as far as their IBT representation is concerned.  They are the only ones in their local, and are essentially isolated from the main body of the corruption within the IBT.  As close to AMFA type representation as you can have. On the other hand, if God forbid, the AA AMTs had voted in the IBT last year - the DFW AMTs would have been relegated to a IBT local out of Houston.  In other words, stuck in the "catch all union" mix yet again - out numbered, and irrelevant.  The only difference is instead of a bus drivers union, we would be in a truck drivers union - quite literally.  That's why the IBT won't work at AA.

 
What I understand is that there is clamor for AMFA. The TWU seems to be an organization that many don't want anymore (unless of course there is a vote with the IAM, then, suddenly the TWU is back in favor). During these debates about a JCBA the calls that the TWU is incapable of getting industry leading mechanics pay, which are currently with UPS, is loud.
 
So, if you want industry leading pay, then the call should be for the IBT. But wait, the IBT has a structure which isn't something that is appealing. So when looking for an appealing structure, the heads turn to AMFA...but they don't have industry leading wages....which is the reasoning mechanics are using to try and gain support for a change, since the TWU is incapable of getting those wages. The IBT has, but their structure is no good....We circle back to AMFA.....BUT no one is moving forward with trying to get them on the NMB ballot because they're busy trying to get the TWU and IAM on the ballot both of which no one wants.....Makes perfect sense. Don't know how I ever doubted the sound reasoning.