TWU/IAM Association Poll

[lineguy43]

They arent any better in reality, they have the same problems and issues that every other airline and its unions have.
 
They dont have a stellar record, yes they got great wages at NW, they won the battle and lost the war.
 
They got voted out at UA and promised to be their savior and accomplished nothing really.
 
They screwed up at ACA and lost a major status quo lawsuit, and failed at Independence Air.
 
And they abandoned their members at the Trump Shuttle after it was sold to US Air and they had to hire their own lawyers as AMFA abandoned them.
 
And they have never negotiated a new CBA at WN, only extensions of the old IBT CBA with improvements in pay, and got a fourth line to let WN outsource a line overseas.
 
Every union in the airlines have had their issues due to turmoil in the middle east, sars, fuel cost, 9/11 and chapter 11.

 
Sorry 700. You might have some points on AMFA and I admit they have been short sighted but there are reasons namely NWA's harsh tactics and with the help of the Bush government helped to bust AMFA which was their intention all along. They did not want a militant union coming into this merger which they knew way ahead of time was going to happen. Bottom line is I was with the IAM from the day I started at NW in 1988. I remember them bringing a vote for concessions back in 1993 and even after we voted it down the IAM kept bringing it back until we swallowed it. Then the last straw was the absoultely abysmal contract they brought to us in the best times in aviation. That contract even turned die hard IAM supporters over to AMFA. Sorry you cannot blame that on 9/11 SARS or anything else. There was no reason back then they should not have negotiated a industry leading contract. NOT ONE

 

[700UW]

Rightful seniority?

They wanted their Eastern seniority after they resigned from EA and went to work for a new separate company, the Trump Shuttle which was later bought by US after Citibank sold it.

They sued and won which is BS.

 

[NYer]

 
Okay - how about the numbers at UAL - NWA - Alaska - EAL - TWA  just with those losses alone compared to whats left at US you're well over 85% mechanic members gone.

 
That's it. That's how you do math? And we just have to take your word for it, I guess.

 

[NYer]

 
And your type of deflection comes from those with ulterior motives

 
Please grace us with these ulterior motives.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
That's it. That's how you do math? And we just have to take your word for it, I guess.

 
Are you truly that helpless?  You got the AMFA percentage didn't you?  You can crunch numbers when its convenient to try and take a stab at AMFA yet apply the same argument to the IAM and you go brain dead. 

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Rightful seniority?

They wanted their Eastern seniority after they resigned from EA and went to work for a new separate company, the Trump Shuttle which was later bought by US after Citibank sold it.

They sued and won which is BS.

 
Or maybe the IAM got caught trying to play games with their rightful seniority and got caught in a court of law.

 

[NYer]

 
Are you truly that helpless?  You got the AMFA percentage didn't you?  You can crunch numbers when its convenient to try and take a stab at AMFA yet apply the same argument to the IAM and you go brain dead. 

 
I made the claim of 85%. You made the claim the IAM has a higher percentage now you want ME to prove YOUR claim? LOL.

 

[700UW]

How can you resign from a company, work for a new company which was then taken over by a bank then sold to US and expect your EA seniority?

Explain that one to me?

When I get home i will find the decision and post the link to read it .

Well since I worked for several different airlines should I sue for my original hire date in the industry?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
I made the claim of 85%. You made the claim the IAM has a higher percentage now you want ME to prove YOUR claim? LOL.

 
You're willfully ignorant of what is obvious to even the most casual observer.
 
UAL:16,000  NWA:9,000  EAL:2,600  Alaska: 900   Using these lowball estimates without adding in TWA, CAL etc - US 4,300 constitutes the same 85% number you keep trying to besmirch AMFA with, add in the rest of the IAM former carriers and what is clear to ALL but you is the IAM has lost more members by count or percentage than AMFA.
 
Your Welcome

 

[767 mechanic]

Okay - how about the numbers at UAL - NWA - Alaska - EAL - TWA  just with those losses alone compared to whats left at US you're well over 85% mechanic members gone.

ThirdSeat don't forget about SWA the iam was the representation on the property before they got kicked off by the reamsters

 

[NYer]

 
You're willfully ignorant of what is obvious to even the most casual observer.
 
UAL:16,000  NWA:9,000  EAL:2,600  Alaska: 900   Using these lowball estimates without adding in TWA, CAL etc - US 4,300 constitutes the same 85% number you keep trying to besmirch AMFA with, add in the rest of the IAM former carriers and what is clear to ALL but you is the IAM has lost more members by count or percentage than AMFA.
 
Your Welcome

 
Is that what you consider math? Estimates. That's pretty ridiculous.
 
Aside from your math, it can't be your argument that AMFA is better because, according to you, the IAM lost the same percentage of members?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

How can you resign from a company, work for a new company which was then taken over by a bank then sold to US and expect your EA seniority?

Explain that one to me?

When I get home i will find the decision and post the link to read it .

Well since I worked for several different airlines should I sue for my original hire date in the industry?

 
 
Explain it to you?  Okay ....
 
 

49
In this case, there was ample evidence, when viewed in the aggregate, to support the verdict. IAM claimed at trial that its motivation for stripping plaintiffs of their Eastern seniority was their having resigned from Eastern. This claim was belied by the position it had taken during the Eastern bankruptcy proceeding that plaintiffs were to be considered as merely having transitioned from Eastern to Trump. Once plaintiffs showed that IAM's purported neutral motivation was pretextual, they only needed to convince the jury that the single other motivation suggested by either party — animus as a result of plaintiffs' association with AMFA — was the reason for IAM's adverse decision.
 
 

 
And even after being caught in a DFR the IAM decides to be even more pathetic ...
 
 

52
Finally, IAM contends that only those plaintiffs who testified at trial as to their losses should be permitted to benefit from the jury's verdict and that IAM is entitled to judgment against all other plaintiffs. Frankly, we do not understand the basis for this challenge. We never have held that every plaintiff must testify as to his or her personal losses in order to establish liability for the implementation of a policy that was applied equally to all plaintiffs. We decline to do so today.


 
 

 
 
So back to my original statement .... their rightful seniority.
 
Oh, and since you have the link, I'll let you tell the board, the name of the lawyer that assisted the Trump Mechanics (Guess Who)
 
 
If you need any more explanation, let me know.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
Is that what you consider math? Estimates. That's pretty ridiculous.
 
Aside from your math, it can't be your argument that AMFA is better because, according to you, the IAM lost the same percentage of members?

 
Readings not one of your strong points either - add in TWA, CAL, and the rest of the IAMs former haunts and their percentage is worse than 85%
 
Oh and, yes. A rough estimate is fine for exposing the obvious in this case.
 
And its your willful ignorance on the issue that's pretty ridiculous
 
Carry on

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

ThirdSeat don't forget about SWA the iam was the representation on the property before they got kicked off by the reamsters

 
Thanks, I missed SWA.
 
That percentage just seems to keep growing.

 

[MetalMover]

 
.
 
I'm not pro anything. It is a simple issue, if we want change fine. Let's change, but the reason for change is that AMFA is better. The arguments seems to be more about how bad everyone else is rather than how good AMFA is. Give us arguments to show AMFA is better and saying the TWU, or any other union, is worse doesn't automatically mean AMFA is better.
 
I'

Having lived under the TWU regime, I would welcome ANY other union.....Mechanics have not fared too well under them.. SO many of us seek AMFA as an alternative to the union where we find ourselves a minority and our bests interests NOT served. Throughout my tenure at AA, mechanics were a minority when we negotiated with fleet service...then when we finally got our own locals, the TWU used Tulsa to once again make the line mechanics a minority once again.
Let's start with the fact that both YOU and I have no say whatsoever in International appointments and their outrageous salaries. Try having one of them removed.
Many of us who want AMFA want a mechanics union so they don't have to get distracted by other work groups..Let each work group fend for themsleves.
Once again the TWU has  a majority of fleet service in international positions..Once again we are a minority with minority representation.
So I will take my chances with AMFA if need be. Should they one day become our bargaining agent and they fail to represent us appropriately, we can boot them as well.
So to answer your question, I will be willing to take my chance with AMFA simply because of my experience under the TWU. 
And yes, those of us who want AMFA do so because the TWU has been BAD for mechanics. They started the concession bandwagon way before bankruptcy. they started in 1983 by giving mechanics' work away. They agreed to the B scale and subsequently the C scale. They have negotiated based on fear by telling the base that more and more jobs will be lost if they didn't vote on this contract, then that contract, then that one....It goes on and on....As far as the AMFA drive, they seem to be winning the war by instilling more fear into TUL by telling them if they vote for AMFA, there will be no more OH whatsoever...
TUL alone lost more than half its workforce compared to its peak....
The list goes on and on.