TWU/IAM Association Poll

[Zom JFK]

You recommended that no one respond to josh but how is it you can not control yourself?
If you would stop replying, we wouldn't have to see your love fest tirade as well.
Put josh on ignore and try your own recommendation, no one else replies to him besides you and Tim.
JMHO

He ain't lyin!

 

[NYer]

 
You're right its not 85% - the percentage of mechanics lost for the IAM is alot worse.

 
Which is?
 
Show us.

 

[NYer]

 
Losing members is never an endorsement - that said the IAM still has lost more mechanic members than AMFA be it by straight numbers, or percentage of peak mechanic members.

 
Show us the numbers.

 

[NYer]

I've asked him that very same question....Of course, he doesn't care whether or not the mechanics go AMFA or another union for that matter. He is just PRO TWU because he has done alright by them.

 
That's WeAAsle, not me. They've done alright, by him. I've never said that. As a matter of fact, unlike WeAAsle, I've been critical at this whole lack of information not being shared.
 
I'm not pro anything. It is a simple issue, if we want change fine. Let's change, but the reason for change is that AMFA is better. The arguments seems to be more about how bad everyone else is rather than how good AMFA is. Give us arguments to show AMFA is better and saying the TWU, or any other union, is worse doesn't automatically mean AMFA is better.
 
I've supported the AMFA guys in trying to get their choice, I've even suggested that they should be getting cards right now. The application for the Association was months ago and there has not been an active campaign since then to get cards signed and force AMFA onto the ballot. Why not?
 
If you want AMFA, get the cards signed and have a vote. Coming on here and having mechanics insult other mechanics, unions, title groups or leaders doesn't really help to get a change, now does it?

 

[NYer]

What do you care about AMFA?
You are not M&R.

 
That type of deflection usually comes from those that can't defend their position.

 

[swamt]

 
That's WeAAsle, not me. They've done alright, by him. I've never said that. As a matter of fact, unlike WeAAsle, I've been critical at this whole lack of information not being shared.
 
I'm not pro anything. It is a simple issue, if we want change fine. Let's change, but the reason for change is that AMFA is better. The arguments seems to be more about how bad everyone else is rather than how good AMFA is. Give us arguments to show AMFA is better and saying the TWU, or any other union, is worse doesn't automatically mean AMFA is better.
 
I've supported the AMFA guys in trying to get their choice, I've even suggested that they should be getting cards right now. The application for the Association was months ago and there has not been an active campaign since then to get cards signed and force AMFA onto the ballot. Why not?
 
If you want AMFA, get the cards signed and have a vote. Coming on here and having mechanics insult other mechanics, unions, title groups or leaders doesn't really help to get a change, now does it?

NYer, they and we have shown and proven why AMFA is better than the current 2 unions at AA and US.  If you were not here at that time then you will just have to go back and read them all.  There is a long list of why AMFA is better than what AA/US mechanics currently have...

 

[700UW]

They arent any better in reality, they have the same problems and issues that every other airline and its unions have.
 
They dont have a stellar record, yes they got great wages at NW, they won the battle and lost the war.
 
They got voted out at UA and promised to be their savior and accomplished nothing really.
 
They screwed up at ACA and lost a major status quo lawsuit, and failed at Independence Air.
 
And they abandoned their members at the Trump Shuttle after it was sold to US Air and they had to hire their own lawyers as AMFA abandoned them.
 
And they have never negotiated a new CBA at WN, only extensions of the old IBT CBA with improvements in pay, and got a fourth line to let WN outsource a line overseas.
 
Every union in the airlines have had their issues due to turmoil in the middle east, sars, fuel cost, 9/11 and chapter 11.

 

[737823]

They arent any better in reality, they have the same problems and issues that every other airline and its unions have.
 
They dont have a stellar record, yes they got great wages at NW, they won the battle and lost the war.
 
They got voted out at UA and promised to be their savior and accomplished nothing really.
 
They screwed up at ACA and lost a major status quo lawsuit, and failed at Independence Air.
 
And they abandoned their members at the Trump Shuttle after it was sold to US Air and they had to hire their own lawyers as AMFA abandoned them.
 
And they have never negotiated a new CBA at WN, only extensions of the old IBT CBA with improvements in pay, and got a fourth line to let WN outsource a line overseas.
 
Every union in the airlines have had their issues due to turmoil in the middle east, sars, fuel cost, 9/11 and chapter 11.

IAM Failures:

Alaska Air: allowing company to outsource SEA ramp, ramp workforce fewer than 700 in a few stations located in the state of Alaska (all hubs, including ANC are contracted out). COPS members are at a small number of stations, overwhelming majority handled by vendors and OALs. Meager pay and weak job security.

Commutair: unsuccessful negotiations since 2008 membership kept in the dark with minimal information provided.

Continental Airlines: decertified by large margin, weak work rules and job protection, but high base rates and a contract that gave the company ultimate flexibility which imposed lower overall cost than AFA sUA agreement work rules, job protection and benefits.

El Al: company prevailed locking out US based employees

NWA: helping, facilitating and encouraging their members to bust AMFA by assuming ancillary suitors. Large scale station closures replaced by Air Wisconsin (still paid dues to 143 and GL). Decertified by large margin at DL, some groups 70/30 against IAM.

TWA: thousands of jobs lost, wages and benefits cut multiple times, members lost seniority due to union prioritizing Union funds over members they represented.

UAL: station closings, wage concessions, elimination of paid lunches, scope whittled down to 7 stations by 2018 with highest healthcare contributions in the industry.

USAIR; bottom of the industry pay and high health care costs, closed stations in 2008-2011 time frame, allows company to make extensive use of part time and formerly contained ready reserve language (2008-2014)

Am I missing anything?

Josh

 

[737823]

British Airways: closing US stations with fewer than two daily departures (ATL, BWI, DEN, DFW, PHX, SAN)

Josh

 

[NYer]

NYer, they and we have shown and proven why AMFA is better than the current 2 unions at AA and US.  If you were not here at that time then you will just have to go back and read them all.  There is a long list of why AMFA is better than what AA/US mechanics currently have...

 
Nothing was proven. There's been a lot of talk, but no proof any thing past claim made by those that want change. The biggest argument made is that AMFA isn't the TWU. The same issues faced by the TWU and other unions are the same faced by AMFA and their outcome hasn't been any different and in some cases, worse.

 

[737823]

We should recall the posts from late 2012-early 2013 before the alliance was announced comparing the two unions.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Full of lies again Josh when I get home I will post the correct information and like I stated every union has been faced with issues.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
Show us the numbers.

 
Okay - how about the numbers at UAL - NWA - Alaska - EAL - TWA  just with those losses alone compared to whats left at US you're well over 85% mechanic members gone.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

They arent any better in reality, they have the same problems and issues that every other airline and its unions have.
 
They dont have a stellar record, yes they got great wages at NW, they won the battle and lost the war.
 
They got voted out at UA and promised to be their savior and accomplished nothing really.
 
They screwed up at ACA and lost a major status quo lawsuit, and failed at Independence Air.
 
And they abandoned their members at the Trump Shuttle after it was sold to US Air and they had to hire their own lawyers as AMFA abandoned them.
 
And they have never negotiated a new CBA at WN, only extensions of the old IBT CBA with improvements in pay, and got a fourth line to let WN outsource a line overseas.
 
Every union in the airlines have had their issues due to turmoil in the middle east, sars, fuel cost, 9/11 and chapter 11.

 
They aren't in reality any worse, and while they may face the same problems as other unions, they do so in an informative and democratic manner that distinguishes them from the others.
 
The IAM doesn't have a stellar record, they scabbed at NWA during the AMFA strike, and at one point stooped so low as to try and organize the scabs.
 
AMFA never promised to be our saviors at UAL, that's just more TWU IAM spin, in 2003 we were already in bankruptcy, we knew the troubles we face when we voted AMFA in.
 
The ACA case spin is classic IAM spin - While in negotiations, ACA made changes which AMFA fought as changing the status quo, yes they lost, but just what would the IAM do?  Sit on their hands as usual and say "they can do that brother"?  
 
Trump shuttle?  The same Trump shuttle where you once lied and claimed AMFA crossed a picket line?  Or maybe the Trump Shuttle where the IAM tried to deny the mechanics their rightful seniority.
 
SWA has never laid off a mechanic and is currently the highest paid in the passenger airline industry.  Whats the IAMs claim to fame?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
That type of deflection usually comes from those that can't defend their position.

 
And your type of deflection comes from those with ulterior motives