TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Overspeed]

Reality Chump & Overspin sounds like a new sitcom. The extension was 92, the pay raise didn't occur till 93 - so there was that typical TWU engineered half year stall in us realizing any benefits from the deal. I know for a fact, that by the time the 95 contract came up -, that stupid survey was two years stale. By 95, the economy had turned the corner and was booming - peoples opinions had changed on what their priorities were from two years before. That didn't matter to the TWU though. The thought and effort put into manipulating that vote by targeting only certain segments of the membership for any real gain - really showed how messed up this communist POS organization really is. History repeats itself again now with the TWU again picking the winners in the membership at our expense. Using your logic, why not give away the measly 5 holidays we have left at half - time pay - if you have to work. Maybe you could get away with giving some more of our vacation away - really who needs that sixth week right? Lets not forget about the sick time fiasco - you TWU antagonists are priceless. BTW, it was no secret that the grounds for rejecting ballots in 95 was subjective, as it turns out the folks judging the ballots took a little creative license when judging the ballots - especially is they had a NO vote on it. The NO vote ballot rejection wasn't just at DFW, it was system wide. I mentioned DFW earlier because the rejection rate of NO ballots was unusually high; in fact, exceeding the amount that the vote passed by system wide. No funny business there going on there - just move along..right?

Where is the evidence you have for rejection rates? You don't have any because it is a fantasy you and your other conspiracy theorists have concocted to fit why you dreams are not coming to fruition. Could it be that not everyone either thinks or votes the way they say? When I asked people how they voted they said "no" in public but if you added up all those "no's" then nobody voted yes. But somebody did.

The airline industry was not booming from 1990 to 1994. 1995 was the first year the industry turned a profit in 4 years. Yes there was an upturn and record profits from 1996 though 2000 but if you knew that was coming why have you not been working on Wall Street? You could be a fund manager.

The survey results reflected a period of uncertainty. Many members were screaming for and early out package for two reasons 1) to allow old timers to leave under good terms and 2) to slow or stop the amount of involuntary reductions. It was a good deal for retirees and for incumbent members. Many TWU members transferred in to the AMT ranks right after that contract passed. In retrospect there were areas that could have been made better and there will always be when looking back. The problem is we have to look forward and make decisions on the best information available. NW had already hit there employees with paycuts, UA did paycuts through their ESOP, and WN was expanding rapidly. That all factored in to members minds when they voted in 1995.

 

[Realityck]

AMFA Strategy in Action

Most unions considered the strike ill conceived from the very beginning. AMFA had no strike fund and, reflecting its separatist philosophy of mechanics acting alone, went on strike while the Pilots, Flight Attendants and Machinists' Union were still negotiating under pressures of bankruptcy court proceedings. AMFA bolted ahead of all the other unions, characteristic of their often-stated mantra that "strength in numbers doesn't necessarily mean strength. " This was the wisdom offered by AMFA Assistant National Director Steve MacFarlane on the eve of the August 2005 strike. He couldn't have been more wrong.

Underestimating solidarity with other unions on the property was only one of AMFA's strategic mistakes. Extremely damaging to unity with other unions was AMFA's negotiating proposal that NWA take more concessions from IAM members and less from AMFA members.

On concession bargaining for example, AMFA members were never given an opportunity to vote on the 'Final and Best Offer' by NWA before the strike was called in August 2005 and 'rank and file observers' were barred from the recent negotiations with NWA on the tentative agreement.

After decimating the ranks of the NWA AMT’s, they bail out

On February 25, 2009, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) addressed a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB), stating:

We are writing to advise you that the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (“AMFA&rdquo has determined that it would be in the best interests of the employees who AMFA represents at Northwest Airlines, Inc. for AMFA to request revocation of its certification.

 

[Vortilon]

Where is the evidence you have for rejection rates? You don't have any because it is a fantasy you and your other conspiracy theorists have concocted to fit why you dreams are not coming to fruition. Could it be that not everyone either thinks or votes the way they say? When I asked people how they voted they said "no" in public but if you added up all those "no's" then nobody voted yes. But somebody did.

The airline industry was not booming from 1990 to 1994. 1995 was the first year the industry turned a profit in 4 years. Yes there was an upturn and record profits from 1996 though 2000 but if you knew that was coming why have you not been working on Wall Street? You could be a fund manager.

The survey results reflected a period of uncertainty. Many members were screaming for and early out package for two reasons 1) to allow old timers to leave under good terms and 2) to slow or stop the amount of involuntary reductions. It was a good deal for retirees and for incumbent members. Many TWU members transferred in to the AMT ranks right after that contract passed. In retrospect there were areas that could have been made better and there will always be when looking back. The problem is we have to look forward and make decisions on the best information available. NW had already hit there employees with paycuts, UA did paycuts through their ESOP, and WN was expanding rapidly. That all factored in to members minds when they voted in 1995.

Do you read what you post? Like I said, the survey went out in 93, by the time it was used in 95 - the economy was on an upswing. The two year old survey didn't reflect the current concerns of the membership. Not unlike most of us who were hired in between 84 - 91, that contract did nothing for us. That comrade, is the kind of BS most don't forget. Other TWU members transferring to AMT ranks? is that supposed to be a concern of AMTs already on staff at AA.

 

[Vortilon]

AMFA Strategy in Action

Most unions considered the strike ill conceived from the very beginning. AMFA had no strike fund and, reflecting its separatist philosophy of mechanics acting alone, went on strike while the Pilots, Flight Attendants and Machinists' Union were still negotiating under pressures of bankruptcy court proceedings. AMFA bolted ahead of all the other unions, characteristic of their often-stated mantra that "strength in numbers doesn't necessarily mean strength. " This was the wisdom offered by AMFA Assistant National Director Steve MacFarlane on the eve of the August 2005 strike. He couldn't have been more wrong.

Underestimating solidarity with other unions on the property was only one of AMFA's strategic mistakes. Extremely damaging to unity with other unions was AMFA's negotiating proposal that NWA take more concessions from IAM members and less from AMFA members.

On concession bargaining for example, AMFA members were never given an opportunity to vote on the 'Final and Best Offer' by NWA before the strike was called in August 2005 and 'rank and file observers' were barred from the recent negotiations with NWA on the tentative agreement.

After decimating the ranks of the NWA AMT’s, they bail out

On February 25, 2009, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) addressed a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB), stating:

We are writing to advise you that the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (“AMFA&rdquo has determined that it would be in the best interests of the employees who AMFA represents at Northwest Airlines, Inc. for AMFA to request revocation of its certification.

Who is going to take your (unbiased) word for this diatribe? Does the TWU have a strike fund? That even sounds funny. I bet there is a strike fund for the TWU international though. BTW jackwagon by the time AMFA stopped representing the decimated ranks of the NWA M & R and the scabs - the writing was on the wall due to the merge with Delta. Nice attempt at spinning the facts though.

 

[Buck]

Who is going to take your (unbiased) word for this diatribe? Does the TWU have a strike fund? That even sounds funny. I bet there is a strike fund for the TWU international though. BTW jackwagon by the time AMFA stopped representing the decimated ranks of the NWA M & R and the scabs - the writing was on the wall due to the merge with Delta. Nice attempt at spinning the facts though.

Are you indicating that Reality Check wasn't around to see this happen?

 

[scorpion 2]

Yes the SRPs started in 1995. Do you remember that the Company proposal was to outsource that work? The membership was surveyed and they said they wanted job security to be there number one concern. With the combination of an early out package and the SRP classification no work was outsourced. The choice was allow the work to be outsourced or insourced.

You do know that UA, DL, and CO all have SRP/OSM type classifications at that time. They call them Utility, Technician Helper, and Mechanic Helper. In 1995 CO only paid one license for overhaul AMTs as well as having unlicensed AMTs working overhaul. Bash the SRP/OSM program all you want but we weren't the first. It was a response to the market forces.

Again market rate has to include the MRO where the work is outsourced to. AA's OSM rate and benefits are higher than MROs where UA, DL, CO, WN, UPS, FDX, and US outsource the work our OSMs perform.

The average wage rate argument has to include the impact of work outsourced to raise the in-house wage rate.

Yes the SRPs started in 1995. Do you remember that the Company proposal was to outsource that work? The membership was surveyed and they said they wanted job security to be there number one concern. With the combination of an early out package and the SRP classification no work was outsourced. The choice was allow the work to be outsourced or insourced.

You do know that UA, DL, and CO all have SRP/OSM type classifications at that time. They call them Utility, Technician Helper, and Mechanic Helper. In 1995 CO only paid one license for overhaul AMTs as well as having unlicensed AMTs working overhaul. Bash the SRP/OSM program all you want but we weren't the first. It was a response to the market forces.

Again market rate has to include the MRO where the work is outsourced to. AA's OSM rate and benefits are higher than MROs where UA, DL, CO, WN, UPS, FDX, and US outsource the work our OSMs perform.

The average wage rate argument has to include the impact of work outsourced to raise the in-house wage rate.

I remember that survey very well. No matter how you wanted to answer the question the only choices you had pertained to job security. There was no other outcome for the survey than to want job security. Then when the international put their sales pitch on the T/A they told us "YOU ASK FOR IT AND YOU GOT" YOU SAID YOU WANTED JOB SECURITY AND YOU GOT IT!
Finley,, the then pres of 514 was the creator of the srp classification. If you want to call it in sourcing than obviously you dont hold an A+P because it outsourced our jobs. As for the job security that it supposedly gave us instead of money.......well we see how thats work out over the years. And yes we were the first to come up with the classification. Remember the deal that was made if an AMT got bumped down to an srp? How well did that work? Now that our negotiator from 514 is facing the same plank walk scenario all of the sudden an AMT that gets bumped down to the srp/osm classification will retain their AMT pay and only lose their license portion. Oh ya I forgot our negotiator doesnt have a license,,,, no pay cut for him....
All those little things including the 5/5 sold another pos contract and bought the international another 6 years of worry free dues collection and those same tactics are being employed now. I wish I could look at this so called union with your blind loyalty but I'm not cut that way brother, when the dog drops a pile in the yard it is what it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Overspeed

In 1994/1995 the Michael Boyd Aviation Consulting group did a report for the pilots in negotiations and in that report Boyd stated "the airlines were poised to make record profits over the next several years"

prior to our vote in 1995, I personally asked the question "why are we settling on a 6% raise over 6 years with the consultants predicting record profits"?

all i got was a photocopied ballot in the mail with a check next to voting yes.

 

[Tex-Mech]

AMFA Strategy in Action

Most unions considered the strike ill conceived from the very beginning. AMFA had no strike fund and, reflecting its separatist philosophy of mechanics acting alone, went on strike while the Pilots, Flight Attendants and Machinists' Union were still negotiating under pressures of bankruptcy court proceedings. AMFA bolted ahead of all the other unions, characteristic of their often-stated mantra that "strength in numbers doesn't necessarily mean strength. " This was the wisdom offered by AMFA Assistant National Director Steve MacFarlane on the eve of the August 2005 strike. He couldn't have been more wrong.

Underestimating solidarity with other unions on the property was only one of AMFA's strategic mistakes. Extremely damaging to unity with other unions was AMFA's negotiating proposal that NWA take more concessions from IAM members and less from AMFA members.

On concession bargaining for example, AMFA members were never given an opportunity to vote on the 'Final and Best Offer' by NWA before the strike was called in August 2005 and 'rank and file observers' were barred from the recent negotiations with NWA on the tentative agreement.

After decimating the ranks of the NWA AMT’s, they bail out

On February 25, 2009, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) addressed a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB), stating:

We are writing to advise you that the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (“AMFA&rdquo has determined that it would be in the best interests of the employees who AMFA represents at Northwest Airlines, Inc. for AMFA to request revocation of its certification.

On November 23, 1999, the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO (TWU), sent a letter to the Board stating that it "voluntarily relinquishes all bargaining rights with respect to the craft or class of dispatchers at Atlantic Southeast Airlines." Board records confirm that TWU is the representative of the craft or class of Dispatchers on Atlantic Southeast Airlines, Inc., pursuant to Board certification in NMB Case No. R-6623.



On the basis of the above relinquishment, the Board hereby revokes, effective this date, the certification issued to the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO, in NMB Case No. R-6623.



By direction of the NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD.




Stephen E. Crable
Chief of Staff

TWU BAILS ON THOSE THEY REPRESENT

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2000/27n021.html

 

[Tex-Mech]

AMFA Strategy in Action

Most unions considered the strike ill conceived from the very beginning. AMFA had no strike fund and, reflecting its separatist philosophy of mechanics acting alone, went on strike while the Pilots, Flight Attendants and Machinists' Union were still negotiating under pressures of bankruptcy court proceedings. AMFA bolted ahead of all the other unions, characteristic of their often-stated mantra that "strength in numbers doesn't necessarily mean strength. " This was the wisdom offered by AMFA Assistant National Director Steve MacFarlane on the eve of the August 2005 strike. He couldn't have been more wrong.

Underestimating solidarity with other unions on the property was only one of AMFA's strategic mistakes. Extremely damaging to unity with other unions was AMFA's negotiating proposal that NWA take more concessions from IAM members and less from AMFA members.

On concession bargaining for example, AMFA members were never given an opportunity to vote on the 'Final and Best Offer' by NWA before the strike was called in August 2005 and 'rank and file observers' were barred from the recent negotiations with NWA on the tentative agreement.

After decimating the ranks of the NWA AMT’s, they bail out

On February 25, 2009, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) addressed a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB), stating:

We are writing to advise you that the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (“AMFA&rdquo has determined that it would be in the best interests of the employees who AMFA represents at Northwest Airlines, Inc. for AMFA to request revocation of its certification.

And for your beloved Reamsters..



On April 21, 2005, Don Treichler, Director, Airline Division, International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) addressed a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB), stating: "The International Brotherhood of Teamsters Airline Division is requesting revocation of its certification issued in NMB Case No. R-7042. . . ."

The National Mediation Board hereby revokes, effective April 21, 2005, the certification issued to the IBT in NMB Case No. R-7042.

By direction of the NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2005/32n030.pdf

 

[Overspeed]

Do you read what you post? Like I said, the survey went out in 93, by the time it was used in 95 - the economy was on an upswing. The two year old survey didn't reflect the current concerns of the membership. Not unlike most of us who were hired in between 84 - 91, that contract did nothing for us. That comrade, is the kind of BS most don't forget. Other TWU members transferring to AMT ranks? is that supposed to be a concern of AMTs already on staff at AA.

Yes I do. The "airline's" were not out of economic trouble by 1995.

You're right. the 95 CBA did nothing for those that were topped out but it did do something for enough that voted yes did it not? And that's it in a nutshell, the contract has to be good enough to pass, just enough to pass.

 

[Buck]

Tex-Mech you must be committing a falsehood.

 

[Vortilon]

Yes I do. The "airline's" were not out of economic trouble by 1995.

You're right. the 95 CBA did nothing for those that were topped out but it did do something for enough that voted yes did it not? And that's it in a nutshell, the contract has to be good enough to pass, just enough to pass.

Really, who even thinks like you? You are truly beyond creepy. BTW refer to Chuck's post above in regard to your assertion about the economic outlook for airlines back in 1995.

 

[scorpion 2]

Yes I do. The "airline's" were not out of economic trouble by 1995.

You're right. the 95 CBA did nothing for those that were topped out but it did do something for enough that voted yes did it not? And that's it in a nutshell, the contract has to be good enough to pass, just enough to pass.

Even if those that voted yes were doing it to take a 5/5 and leave the rest holding the bag? If a union works with the company to target where 50% plus one votes may be then I guess you consider the twu to be top shelf! Are you a US citizen?

 

[Realityck]

Do you read what you post? Like I said, the survey went out in 93, by the time it was used in 95 - the economy was on an upswing.


Economy in an upswing! I hate to say this, but you better lay off the sauce man:

Monday, 19 September 2005

Delta, Northwest may consider merger


The same-day bankruptcy filings by Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines this week may be coincidental, but some experts on Friday said the two carriers could be eyeing a merger that would see them re-emerge as the largest US airline.

Analysts said they see pros and cons to such a marriage. "There is not excessive (route) overlap, which makes it an enticing possibility," said Joe Schwieterman, transportation expert at DePaul University. "(But) I think the integration problems would be staggering."

Representatives for both carriers had no comment on the merger speculation, which has been fueled by media reports.

Delta and Northwest filed for Chapter 11 protection from creditors on Wednesday, victims of soaring fuel prices and low-cost competition.

United Airlines and US Airways are already bankrupt, and many in the industry are grappling with difficult labor issues, including high wage and benefit costs.

At least one carrier is using a merger as a lifeline to stay in business. US Airways on Friday received bankruptcy court clearance to exit Chapter 11, having agreed to combine with low-cost carrier America West.

"the economy was on an upswing"

 

[Overspeed]

Even if those that voted yes were doing it to take a 5/5 and leave the rest holding the bag? If a union works with the company to target where 50% plus one votes may be then I guess you consider the twu to be top shelf! Are you a US citizen?

Yes I am a US citizen.

The union's goal is to get the best deal for its members and yes would like it to pass by an overwhelming margin because it is so good for them. On the other side of the table is the Company and they want it to pass by 50% +1 because it means they gave just enough to get it through.

There will always be some group that is unhappy with the outcome.