It's been said that that AA has added just enough "sweetener" to garnish a 51% approval from the 2 remaining groups. Why is it that the previous 5 groups approved contracts by an average of 83%? Did AA miscalculate or were they being generous? It appears there are double standards within the negotiation process.
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TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement
- Thread starter devil505
- Start date
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
c. Determining the
Maximum Number of
Aircraft that Commuter
Carriers May Operate.
Current: The maximum average number of
aircraft that may be operated under this Section
D. during a six-month period is the number of
Narrowbody Aircraft multiplied by 110%.
New: The number of regional /small jets with greater than thirty (30) seats (as operated) that
may be flown on the Company’s behalf under the Scope exceptions for Commuter Air
Carriers shall be up to seventy-five (75) percent of the mainline narrowbody fleet count
(single aisle aircraft above 79 seats) distributed as outlined below:
a. The maximum number of such regional/small jets with greater than thirty (30)
seats (as operated) up to and including sixtyfive (65) seats (as operated) cannot exceed
thirty-five (35) percent of the total mainline narrowbody fleet count, except as provided in © below.
b. The maximum number of such regional/small jets with greater than sixty-five
(65) seats (as operated) up to and including seventy-nine (79) seats (as operated) cannot
exceed the following percentages of the total mainline narrowbody fleet count in the years indicated:
i. 2012 – 2014 25%
ii. 2015 30%
iii. 2016 & beyond 40%
c. Provided, however, that the number of aircraft operated under (a) may exceed thirtyfive (35) percent of the total mainline narrowbody fleet count, as long as the total
number (aircraft under
(a) plus aircraft under
(B)) does not exceed seventy-five (75) percent
of the mainline narrowbody fleet count, and
the number under
(a) in excess of thirty-five
(35) percent of the total mainline narrowbody
fleet count shall reduce the number of aircraft
permitted under (B).
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,065
The OSS % is calculated on all maintenance work. No specific aircraft and engine type is protected however, all are included. That being said Airbus work could be in or out but given the fleet size much of the work will be in-house.
Having worked A300 in the past, I hope the A320 is more maintenance friendly. The schematic manuals sucked! And the A300 had a bad habit of breaking at departure time.
The DC10 was an OT machine however the A300 was an OT factory. What a pig!
iluvaa
Veteran
- Mar 22, 2007
- 1,228
- 811
We flew A300 out of DFW. I did not know that
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
We all thought we had separate negotiations, but did you ever notice the % raise always seems to be the same?
CactUSmx
Advanced
- May 23, 2012
- 131
- 86
A320 is very mechanic friendly that's why JetBlue and Delta have kids working on it. There schematics r so easy to read a 5th grader can read them. AA will need half the line mechanics it has today when they arrive...
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Bob, one thing about this figure...the full text chart rate shows the base pay topiing at out $31.55.
Adding the $5.00 license premium brings it to $36.55. Just curious about the $34.10 you posted.
But I would like to bring up one thing worth mentioning..
First, concerning the INDUSTRY COMPARABLE PAY RATE ADJUSTMENT....
Please read that LOM again..
The way I read it is that if we are below the average of Delta, United and USair afte 36 months, we will get an increase that brings us up to average.
BUT IT SAYS THAT THE 3% RAISE WILL BE PART OF THE ADJUSTMENT.
So if we are $1.39 below average, you can deduct the 3% of base rate AT THAT POINT from the 1.39.
So basically the adjustment will INCLUDE the 3% contractual third year raise. We would get the $1.39 (example) but in total, NOT ON TOP OF THE THIRD STEP INCREASE!
If I am reading it wrong, I would stand corrected.
One more thing...Do other airlines have OSMs?
I really do not know the answer..
The reason I mention this is because we have been hearing that other airlines have been INSOURCING work again AFTER BK...And if they are insourcing again, I would guess mechancis at mechanics pay are doing the work.
UAL emeerged from BK in 2005 and struck a new deal in 2011, thats six years.
You are forgetting the fact that when UA went through the process the largest carrier in the country, AA, had already cut our pay by at least 25%. That meant that UAL, sitting in BK was way above what AA, the largest carrier was paying, WE ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE INDUSTRY!!!!! Even with the adjustments our compensation would be 21% below UALs. UALs pay in BK did not go 21% below ours , so its no big deal that AA isnt asking to cut the Hourly wage,the hourly wage is already below market, but make no mistake, you are getting a paycut, the increases wont even cover the Medical between increased deductibles and rates, plus the loss of the pension, the company claims thats worth 10%.
Our wages have declined by around 40% since 2003.
When we gave up more outside of BK than other gave in BK you advocated that, said it was better than BK because we saved jobs, yet we lost 5000 jobs. You also said that if we give ahead of BK that we would be better off in BK. Even the economist said thats wrong, better to go in fat than skinny. Jim Little said back then "its not a matter of if they will file but when". Well the Judge didnt care about what we gave in 2003, just like I said. Now you say that because they are not slashing the wage, just taking away our work rules, Pension, retiree medical, increasing our out of pocket medical costs, all cuts in "pay" that we are coming out of this better than UAL. You cant be that stupid, it has to be your arrogant belief that you are so much smarter than anyone else that you could talk a bull into giving milk.
Check the facts, none of our peers went into BK at the bottom of the industry, none when in or came out as bad off in real terms as we would if we accepted this ultimatum.
And (not or) under the AA certificate.
So AMR could set up a subsidiary and have the APA fly it and us not work it.
DOS. That was comparing what we would get for the next year after DOS to what UAL gets now. Ual starts negotiating in September for a new contract. SWA becomes amendable this August and USAIR has been in mediation for a year. If we accept this we set the standard and screw the profession again, just like in 2003, when out of BK we lowered wages by 25% while other carriers were in BK.
Thats correct, the 3% increase would be part of the total, and as I pointed out to Jim Ream we would still be at the bottom once we factored in Holidays, Vacation and Sick Time.
UAL has language for something similar but in order to get ther they have to recall everyone first, thats probably why they offered $75,000 for the early out.
From what I've heard they have been insourcing because the shortage of mechanics is driving costs up for the MROS and quality issues with the work coming out of them.
The shortage is here people. just remember 1995 when we had to sit on the sidelines as the country went through one of the biggest economic expansions ever while we were tied to a 6 year 6% concessionary deal thank to Ed Koziatek. We had a ME TOO clause then as well. In 2003 we gave bigger concessions than any carrier had given in BK, 25% and we were told dont worry we will get it all back in three years with our "Early Opener". well that didnt work out too well either. Now here we are at a point where the shortage of mechanics is starting to effect the market rate and we are once again being told to accept the worst deal in the industry, the worst deal in the history of our profession because we have both a Me Too, and Early Opener and that in three years they will adjust our wages to the average of the three lowest paid carriers which will guarantee that we are still at the bottom.
Its a no brainer VOTE NO!!!
By the way I was contacted by an outfit that works MD-80s Fire Tankers on the West Coast, (Hillsboro OR) they would love to hear from AA mechanics interested in working for them. Its not an Airline, its non-union. Starting wages with no experience is $17hr, with experience its whatever you can negotiate into the $30. Benefits , they pay 90% for Medical and full dental with a 401K plan.They are especially interested in avionics. For more info PM me and I'll send out the info.
Bob, where did you see that?
Here is the letter from pg 23:
RE: Operating Aircraft with a Capacity of more than 79 Seats
Dear Robert;
During the recent negotiations that led to the signing of the Agreement between American Airlines, Inc. ("American") and the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO ("TWU") covering Mechanic and Related employees effective DOS, the parties discussed the APA proposals involving flying aircraft with more than 79 seats.
It is agreed that absent agreement between TWU and the Company to the contrary, all aircraft with greater than 79 seats, if flown by APA and operated by AMR corporation or its subsidiaries, are within the scope of this Agreement.
Please note the underlined text, seems to me it doesn't matter which certificate they are under.
The T/A with the pilots has them flying anything over 79 seats.
RE: Operating Aircraft with a Capacity of more than 79 Seats
Dear Robert;
During the recent negotiations that led to the signing of the Agreement between American Airlines, Inc. ("American") and the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO ("TWU") covering Mechanic and Related employees effective DOS, the parties discussed the APA proposals involving flying aircraft with more than 79 seats.
It is agreed that absent agreement between TWU and the Company to the contrary, all aircraft with greater than 79 seats, if flown by APA and operated by AMR corporation or its subsidiaries, are within the scope of this Agreement.
ABSENT AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWU, you can rest assured that AAragant airlines will find a way to screw you. if you really think that they are/care about saving jobs you are deluding yourself. they (aa or twu) could not care less about you and will out source you in a heart beat for the right price. the sad thing is is that this company wants to outsource but has no clue what they are outsourcing or how to outsource. they have screwed their own management themselves so many times that half of them couldn't give a s*hit what they do any more. if the front line empoyees dont care any more its just a downward spiral not sure where you work but at the "cornerstone" of dfw you should listen to the passengers and their opinion of aa! if another airline walked in tomorrow (Delta?) they would eat aa's lunch, hell all they would have to do is actually listen to the peon's and it would be lights out for aa!
Dear Robert;
During the recent negotiations that led to the signing of the Agreement between American Airlines, Inc. ("American") and the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO ("TWU") covering Mechanic and Related employees effective DOS, the parties discussed the APA proposals involving flying aircraft with more than 79 seats.
It is agreed that absent agreement between TWU and the Company to the contrary, all aircraft with greater than 79 seats, if flown by APA and operated by AMR corporation or its subsidiaries, are within the scope of this Agreement.
ABSENT AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWU, you can rest assured that AAragant airlines will find a way to screw you. if you really think that they are/care about saving jobs you are deluding yourself. they (aa or twu) could not care less about you and will out source you in a heart beat for the right price. the sad thing is is that this company wants to outsource but has no clue what they are outsourcing or how to outsource. they have screwed their own management themselves so many times that half of them couldn't give a s*hit what they do any more. if the front line empoyees dont care any more its just a downward spiral not sure where you work but at the "cornerstone" of dfw you should listen to the passengers and their opinion of aa! if another airline walked in tomorrow (Delta?) they would eat aa's lunch, hell all they would have to do is actually listen to the peon's and it would be lights out for aa!
Why? So after they cut our pay they can cut even more mechanics? Whose side are you on again?
