TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[swamt]

What's really sad is that neither the IAM or TWU feel they can win an election with their own memberships.

I understand what you are saying but, I would think a straight election between the TWU and IAM the TWU would win by the sheer numbers at AA over the numbers at US...

 

[TWU informer]

It would be most helpful if you guys would use the "reply with quotes" function and stop using color text to seperate your comments from those you are responding to.
 
This is becoming impossible to read and keep up with.
 
Just my opinion.

 

[WeAAsles]

WARNING:
If you spend too much time reading these forums, you will develop a very negative attitude.
 
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GRAVITY!
THE WHOLE WORLD SUCKS!
THAT IS WHAT HOLDS US ON THE PLANET SURFACE!

You mean
 

It would be most helpful if you guys would use the "reply with quotes" function and stop using color text to seperate your comments from those you are responding to.
 
This is becoming impossible to read and keep up with.
 
Just my opinion.

Like this?


Ok but if we're answering multiple items within one post how are we supposed to do that?

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 

So you prefer playing VEGAS with our pay over direct and tangible wage increases that are set in stone then? Ok you and I both agree that the company is going to be profitable for many years to come more than likely. We're on the same page except on how to capitalize on that profit. Take part of that wage increase you received and invest it in AAL stock. I started that run with LCC at $18.50 per share and have slowly added in more when and since it converted over to AAL. It's hit $41.55 so far today so you tell me how I'm doing?

You've also pointed out that we're not in Section 6. So do you want to hold up the progress by making a demand for something that is not wanted to be given the way you want it?
 

No, we were going to get the 4% increase (plus) two years later anyway with the Mid Term wage adjustment so we gave up at least six years of profit sharing to get that 4% two years earlier. 
 
Not doing so good because most of that 4% was eaten up by increases to medical. The point is we had profit sharing and gave it up for something of lesser value when they knew rightly that all expectations were that AA was going to be more profitable than ever before. AA was expecting to be profitable even before they entered BK, not once did they claim they needed our concessions to be profitable, they claimed they needed them to be competitive, in other words to make higher profits than any other carrier. They were handed all the documents in court, and instead of capitalizing on it Little screwed us out of Profit Sharing. 
 
 
If they don't want to give Profit sharing fine, then we have less incentive to go the extra mile and make them more profitable when the alternative puts more cash in our pockets through Overtime. A plane in the air makes them money, a plane in the hangar puts more money in our pockets. But we never should have given it away for something where the value disappears within two years. If we had received more vacation, or got holiday pay,  or even sick time back at least those things carry value. That 4% doesn't even compound because the Mid Term wage adjustment is based on what other carriers are paying. 
 
 

Ok I know that you believe that Jim Little and Co. were in bed with the company. Do you believe the same thing about Harry Lombardo? Seems to me from what's going on with those letters to the IAM and other issues in NYC that the man is willing to play hard ball?  
 

I don't believe that Harry is in bed with the company, I do think that he failed to make sure that he received a balanced picture of what is going on at AA by only choosing people from Fleet to run the ATD and only choosing people from Fleet and Tulsa to be a part of the International. The plan appears to be that even though we took deeper pay cuts and are way below market value that the plan we all will get the same increases and thats unacceptable because it means we will still be at the bottom. Great for Fleet, not so good for mechanics. 



 

Right now for your dream to happen Bob it looks to me like both parties need to back out of the agreement. I don't think the IAM is willing to do that just because you're on here asking them to? Without a legal loophole (NMB) deciding against it, it looks like we're diving in even if the water is cold right now.
 
 

 
I have no idea what you are trying to say with that. 

 

[Kev3188]

You mean
 

Like this?


Ok but if we're answering multiple items within one post how are we supposed to do that?

You can chop up a post however you need to. Once, you've got a post quoted, click the light switch in the upper left corner. This will switch things from rich text to UBB code. You can then use [.quote] and [./quote] (with no periods) at the start & end of each chunk of text you want. You can switch back to rich text for inserting pics, links, etc...

 

[Bob Owens]

So I guess you didn't want to touch this huh?

So what if that one Local you're talking about has it's home base in TUL or DFW. You cool with that? Actually that one Local should be in DFW since that's where HQ is. Much easier for those leaders to have a one on one with the company if they don't have to fly in. Also would save the members some money. 

You cool with this?


 

Thought I did, said Yes I'm cool with it.   You basically asked the same question twice and agree that it should be in DFW, or New York
 
 
Should I go back over every question mark you have not specifically responded to? 

 

[TWU informer]

You mean
YES

 
Like this?

Or like this

Ok but if we're answering multiple items within one post how are we supposed to do that?

This seperates your comments from other and is readable.
Thanks

 
See the above post.
That quote block is added by clinking the the quote icon.
Try that instead of colors
I dont mean to be a whiner but the color edits are making me just bypass the message instead of trying to figure out who is saying what

 

[TWU informer]

 

You can chop up a post however you need to.

This method is by far better

Once, you've got a post quoted, click the light switch in the upper left corner.

Easy to read

This will switch things from rich text to UBB code. You can then use [.quote] and [./quote] (with no periods) at the start & end of each chunk of text you want.

You can switch back to rich text for inserting pics, links, etc...

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
Don't put words in my mouth Bob. I never said what you should or should be willing to do. I pointed out what the facts are at other airlines. They have less people so they make more money. And Fleet was not willing to take deeper paycuts either to save jobs or else we would still have cabin and maybe some more stations. As a matter of fact before the "Me Too" kicked in we were going to take a .42 cent per hour cut. Jeez you should have heard the uproar and outcry. I'm in a hub and didn't hear one person scream about station closures, just Cabin and that .42 cents. And I'll always be just one vote.

But my group is no different then yours.
 
Good stuff but again back to putting words in my mouth and the fact that you just may have filled out the wrong job application. The reality is that if you don't yet you soon will be the voting majority. My opinion is COLA or GEO pay. Your group just may have the ability to make that happen? My group I'm not so sure because we have CLT, DFW, and PHX to contend with. I think it's very fair though but all I can do is advocate and lobby for it. 

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/



 
 

What facts? You are saying something as if one has to do with the other, I pointed out the fact that years ago when we earned more than SWA mechanics they had less mechanics than we did, they had less mechanics per airplane than we did and that has not changed. So back then would it have been correct to say "they have less people so they make less money"? Thats a dumb statement, you are drawing a conclusion based upon circumstance and familiarity rather than fact. Where you went wrong was using the word "so". You are claiming that one fact is a direct result of another, that there is some sort of economic law at play here and only one outcome can result, in this case its "More workers equals lower wages". I already showed you that was not the case in the past and both SWA and UPS have increased their mechanic headcount while increasing wages while we have decreased headcount and compensation. 
 
 
 The fact is that their wages have kept pace with inflation while ours has plummeted, along with our headcount. If your assumption was correct and lowered headcount drives higher wages then our wages would have gone up, not down. 
 
 
M&R, thats Title I and II is below 10,000, its approximately 50% lower than it was at its peak, and our wages are also in real terms 50% less, according to your "Less people SO they make more money" thesis our pay should have doubled or our headcount should have, neither happened.
 
Does this Law of yours only apply to Maintenance? We have more FAs per airplane than most of our competitors yet they were industry leading, same with Pilots and Fleet service as well before BK. If this is such an absolute fact then why does it only apply to maintenance? 
 
The best response you can come up with is that I should have had a Crystal Ball and known 30 years ago that our Union would be taken over by pro-company people who would destroy our profession? That just shows that you do not have an adequate defense of your position. 

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
See the above post.
That quote block is added by clinking the the quote icon.
Try that instead of colors
I dont mean to be a whiner but the color edits are making me just bypass the message instead of trying to figure out who is saying what

 
A hearty +1, and you're not being a whiner. I feel the same.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
A hearty +1, and you're not being a whiner. I feel the same.

I must admit, I too move on pass the red writing. It is an irritant...when, where and why did that replace the quote function?

 

[TRAVIS]

BOO! Happy Halloween....And no it's not a IAM / TWU Scare Tactic.......  

 

[Real tired]

 
Page 32 of the links provided above says it all guys.  Why would you restrict anyone wanting to go back to work after retirement.  Hell you will lose all your pension benefit if you start your own business.  I will try to transfer below;
 
If you return to work after you have retired and while you are receiving a pension from the National 
Pension Plan, your pension may be suspended, depending upon your age and the type of work 
you are doing.
 

If you have reached normal retirement age, your pension 
benefits will be suspended for any month in which:
■■ You work 40 or more hours in any industry and 
geographical area which was covered by the Plan 
when you retired, and
■■ Your employment is in any trade or craft in which 
you worked at any time under the Plan after your 
contribution date, which is generally the date on which 
a contributing employer first became obligated to 
make contributions to the Plan (or a prior plan) on 
your behalf.
 

If you have not reached normal retirement age, you cannot 
receive pension benefits and work for a contributing 
employer or for any other employer "including self employment" in the same or related business or industry 
from which you retired, regardless of the number of hours 
worked or the geographical area in which you worked. 
Further, you may not work in any employment that would 
be disqualifying employment at normal retirement age.
Your pension benefits will not be suspended after you 
have reached the date at which benefits must be paid 
automatically generally, the later of the April 1st 
following the year during which you retire or the April 1st 
following the year during which you reach age 70½. 
 

If you are thinking about accepting any employment 
after you retire, please contact the Fund office to get 
a ruling on that employment. 
You can also download a “Ruling on Employment” form 
from the Plan’s website at www.iamnpf.org. You are 
required to report all employment to the Fund office within 
30 days of the start of such employment.

The Trustees may require you to periodically provide 
information about your employment status.
Disability pensioners are required to report any employment 
to the Fund office within 15 days of returning to work. 
Failure to make a timely report of employment may result 
in disqualification of benefits for six months.
If the Trustees find, from any source, that you have 
worked in employment as just described and you have not 
notified the Fund, the Trustees will presume that you are 
working 40 hours a month in disqualifying employment 
and will suspend your pension for that month and each 
subsequent month until you give written notice that you 
are no longer working or establish that the employment 
is not disqualifying employment.
 
 
***The self employment restriction is just pathetic.  My father has a pension and he has no restrictions what-so-ever to obtain work again after retirement (except for the ages) and he now owns his own business and still receives his full monthly pension.  Hell he even went back to work 3 months after retirement, same job, but not as an employee, but as a contractor, to consult and direct and performing the exact same services.    The other restrictions upon this pension system is that the pensions could be stopped if you guys voted out the IAM.  When you have a restriction to your retirement funds if you change unions is just plain stupid and scare tactics to keep the union from being voted out, and if any union has to have that clause as a keeper clause for the union to stay protected from being fired is just as pathetic as the employment and self employment restrictions if not worse.  
 
You guys need to put your money in a 401K system that pays a decent % with dollar for dollar match.  




 

I agree with your post, but the truth be told, this section of the SPD has been modified just a bit.
 
http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/74663/NPP_SMM_Aug_%202014.pdf

 

[enough already]

There's also the guy that post with purple cursive that's unreadable. He may have something worthwhile to say, but I scroll by his posts.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You can chop up a post however you need to.

Trying this on my iPad

Once, you've got a post quoted, click the light switch in the upper left corner. This will switch things from rich text to UBB code.

Test

You can then use [.quote] and [./quote] (with no periods) at the start & end of each chunk of text you want.

Test

You can switch back to rich text for inserting pics, links, etc...

Test

Slow process using the iPad, but it works. Thanks Kev!