TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[MetalMover]

 
Not nearly as many. That's probably true for all unions at all airlines, isn't it.

Yes, You blame AMFA's loss of members on AMFA. But you blame the IAM's loss of members on economics and BKs....seems fair. 
You just don't get it, do you? We mechanics who want change will take just about any change to rid ourselves of the TWU. IAM is not an option either. Had the IBT stayed in it for the long haul, many of us would have voted for them. Would it make you happy if it weren't AMFA....How about a new union for mechanics with NO former representation portfolio? This way you can't go on and on about how many members they lost.
it isn't so much about AMFA as it is about ridding ourselves of the TWU.

 

[MetalMover]

 
At some point the "movement" will have to stop being outmaneuvered. Begs the question, if the incompetence of the TWU, as alleged by the AMFA supporters, can outmaneuver the decade old AMFA drive...how can we not expect they get outmaneuvered in negotiations. (It happened with the NWA strike)

Once again, I ask you......WHY DO YOU STILL WANT THE MECHANICS IN THE TWU WITH YOU? 

 

[TRAVIS]

Yes, You blame AMFA's loss of members on AMFA. But you blame the IAM's loss of members on economics and BKs....seems fair. 
You just don't get it, do you? We mechanics who want change will take just about any change to rid ourselves of the TWU. IAM is not an option either. Had the IBT stayed in it for the long haul, many of us would have voted for them. Would it make you happy if it weren't AMFA....How about a new union for mechanics with NO former representation portfolio? This way you can't go on and on about how many members they lost.
it isn't so much about AMFA as it is about ridding ourselves of the TWU.

Any Union BUT THESE LOOSERS!!! UNION PLUMBERS OF AMERICA heck they make more than we do! 

 

[WeAAsles]

 
WeAAsles
 
You should be sorry, and the reason I say that is most guys Don't look at the title 2 guys when they are talking about mechanics. They are just looking at their peers.
But as an AMFA organizer I have to look at them since they are part of the class and craft that I want a better union for.

You see man this is where things disturb me. At least you are honest by saying that most in your group, and you did use the word most. Do not consider these guys mechanics or really want to consider them at all. You and I talked about this once and you agreed with me. Now look at the way you worded your next comment. You "Have To" look at them. Does that mean that you want or don't want to? Deep down inside and I really think you're probably a good guy, you know if they could be outsourced from your group you would have those fantastic wages. You can't honestly tell me that you don't think about that?  
 
 
I have asked these guys for the 16 yrs I have been at this here at AA and they just want to listen to all the rhedoric that the TWU and others like your self and the IBT/IAM spew. You don't tell them that the reason they got bumped was they were on one seniority list. You don't tell them that we have two title groups here at AA and it works different, due to two lists. That unless you have time in that title group you can't bump into it.
You tell them that AMFA does not want them but you don't tell them that the SWA facilities/auto guys make $4.00 more an hr than I do even with my A&P Lic pay.

I think we all should be making SWA wages and then some. But to make those wages ignores many things as to why they make what they do. It's not fair of you guys to ignore and leave that out.
 
I know your comment was meant to be a smart a$$ comment, But you don't consider that you are trashing the points we are trying to get across to our class and craft workers, and if it hurts our drive then so be it. Thats ok that we feel slighted by the TWU as long you protect the TWU. At OUR Class and craft expense.
 
You call yourself a true Union GUY?
 
Just your UNION, mine does not count is that right??????????

No I want you to get so much that it's beyond ridiculous. But that should not come at the possible expense of others or at the expense of the truth for selling your organization. If your organization is sound and it's something people truly believe in it shouldn't be having any struggles in becoming a reality for you.

I do call myself a Union guy. We just have a different take on what that means and the things some of your guys have been spouting are just not truthful and you know that. You shouldn't want to win any contest with lies should you?

 

[WeAAsles]

Average In House Maintenance Employees per Aircraft: 2013

AA 18.2
US AIR 11.9
Delta 11.2
United 9.6

Southwest and Jetblue 3.4 (Lowest in the entire industry)

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/MX/Average%20In%20House%20Maintenance%20Employees%20per%20Aircraft.htm

Data Source:  US DOT Form 41 via BTS, Schedule P10 & T2.
 

 

[700UW]

And as a former stock clerk who has been away since 2005 you truly have no clue or a dog in this fight.

Josh

And as so called banker you do?
 
Hypocrite.

 

[swamt]

 
Then please correct the numbers if they're wrong. Don't leave what you believe to be wrong numbers out there without correcting it.
 
And so it seems you agree the airline is in the right to cut even more jobs since in your opinion they're "overstaffed."

Like I told 700, WT and others I will no longer feed you with correct information.  YOU need to do your own homework before you post wrong, lies, misinformation--period.  I never agreed to what you posted, AGAIN do not try to put words in my posts, get a clue moron, it won't work with me...
 

 
You're right. I didn't see that. Congratulations to all the NWA mechanics that showed us they had guts, wherever you happen to be working today.

AMFA was the "ONLY" union that showed guts at NWA, I repeat, the ONLY union to stand up to NWA.  All the others caved and agreed with NWA for all the concessions and layoffs and rifs and displacements for all their members.  AMFA had the balls to fight for the majority of the membership while all the others just simply caved to all their accepted concessions.  Matter fact all the other unions scabbed and crossed AMFA's picket and strike lines, therefore supporting the company in it's agenda to rid themselves of AMFA as they were the strongest union that represented any group at any airline---PERIOD...
 

 
Smallest window? You start the post with 11 and counting. That's 11 weeks of card collecting. Then after the Single Carrier Status is announced there will be another 30 days. If AMFA doesn't get enough cards, it is absolutely not about time constraints.

Watch and learn my little friend, I have not let all the info out that I know...

 

[swamt]

 
Then that's great news for you guys. It should mean that you can get the cards necessary to put yourselves on this next ballot....Good luck, if AMFA is the answer the mechanics at AA will sign those cards and make the move....Go for it.

AA side has enough cards.  The side that is lagging is the US side now that they are added to the total count (or at least expected to be added to the count).  I will not spoil the numbers at this time, but trust me, if there is a vote for the alliance AMFA will in fact be involved point blank.  Your wish will more than likely come true...
 

 
Not nearly as many. That's probably true for all unions at all airlines, isn't it.

Wrong.  All the industrial unions have lost more members as well as airlines than AMFA has, hands down.  But yes all unions have lost members as well as airlines thru the years of representation...
 

 
At some point the "movement" will have to stop being outmaneuvered. Begs the question, if the incompetence of the TWU, as alleged by the AMFA supporters, can outmaneuver the decade old AMFA drive...how can we not expect they get outmaneuvered in negotiations. (It happened with the NWA strike)

The decade long AMFA drive you speak of has gone head to head with the TWU (current AA represenative), the AA company side working with the TWU, as well as the ibt also working with the AA company and the TWU, and then there is the IAM who never worked with anyone except the US company.  Why is it that ALL the industrial unions as well as airline companies work so freakin hard to keep AMFA out?  This speaks volumes upon volumes at how hard everyone is working to keep AMFA out everywhere.  The companies are so used to working so well with the unions for concessions after concessions in the past they are not willing or ready for a new regime to come in and change their comfort zone of how past agreed to agreements have worked for the last 30 plus years for the TWU represented members at AA.  And they (industrial unions) also know that once AMFA gets in at the new AA it will snow-ball into other airlines once the entire industry sees how AMFA operates at AA...

 

[WeAAsles]

"All these picky little points you keep bringing up, well they don't mean nothing!"

Great movie scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzhH2hlNSfs

 

[WeAAsles]

Average In House Maintenance Employees per Aircraft: 2013

AA 18.2
US AIR 11.9
Delta 11.2
United 9.6

Southwest and Jetblue 3.4 (Lowest in the entire industry)

http://web.mit.edu/a...er Aircraft.htm

Data Source:  US DOT Form 41 via BTS, Schedule P10 & T2.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Sure. Get rid of all the competition in the airline industry and we can demand anything we want. We're not UPS, FEDEX and the USPS as much as some would like and think we should be.

 
Nice try
 
You posted the MIT link, but nowhere in it does it state or conclude your BS assertion that to get SWA wages you have to trade away jobs on the draconian scale you're trying to peddle.

Thats just another laughable attempt by the TWU to cover for their lack of mechanic representation.
 
Try again.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
How can giving facts about AMFA, belittling them.
 
Calling people names doesn't make the facts go away.

 
I never said you were belittling them .... I said you were "trying" to belittle them
 
And I'm not calling you names
 
You are attempting to critique AMFA by way of "current mechanic membership vs past mechanic membership" numbers while at the same time, advocating for an alliance with another union with a far more atrocious record of "current mechanic membership vs past mechanic membership"  numbers
 
- you are a hypocrite -
 
Its not name calling if its true

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Nice try
 
You posted the MIT link, but nowhere in it does it state or conclude your BS assertion that to get SWA wages you have to trade away jobs on the draconian scale you're trying to peddle.
Thats just another laughable attempt by the TWU to cover for their lack of mechanic representation.
 
Try again.

OK total Maintenance Labor cost for block hour then:

AA $109.00 (In 2012 it was $142.00)
Delta $88.00
UAL $110.00
US $207.00
Southwest $83.00 (Lowest cost of the 5 and AMFA represented)

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html

Seems to me that they have been representing you just fine in relation to those represented at Southwest.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

OK total Maintenance Labor cost for block hour then:

AA $109.00 (In 2012 it was $142.00)
Delta $88.00
UAL $110.00
US $207.00
Southwest $83.00 (Lowest cost of the 5 and AMFA represented)

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html

Seems to me that they have been representing you just fine in relation to those represented at Southwest.

 
Who is "they"?  How does this change the fact that your MIT link still doesn't back up your BS assertion of having to trade jobs for wages and better representation?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
Sure. Everyone brings up the lost Members at the "industrial unions," therefore it must be relevant that the same could be said for AMFA. They're representing 10% of the Members they used to represent. It's just a fact.

 
Yes, and the fact that the IAM is far worse, is brought up to counter your attempts to degrade AMFA and expose your flagrant hypocrisy - Its just a fact