Why then did outsourcing increase dramatically after the insertion of the 38% cap. It was only after that did the Northwest farm a total of five ( how many jobs is that?) "C" check lines? Do you happen to know the number of jobs that this percentage cost working men and women?
TWU allows 41% Outsource of Maintenance
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You can continue to hide you head in the sand, obviousely that's your right. But if you AMFA supporters are actually the truth seekers you claim to be, you'll strive to be honest with yourselves and learn all the facts instead of putting stock in what anyone else says. The TWU uses industry experts for a reason. I can understand you guys being bitter for one reason or another, but let's not allow ourselves to have tunnel vision when you are searching for the truth. Ask intelligent questions and then do all the research required to answer the them. The fact is, that the USA Today was correct for what they reported but they didn't add all the catagories that the industry uses to determine these numbers.That's why they are not accurate (even the Alaska & Northwest numbers). Open your mind and realize that most of the facts you hear and read need alittle explanation especially when people choose to be close minded.
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On 7/4/2003 1:15:42 PM jake wrote:
Why then did outsourcing increase dramatically after the insertion of the 38% cap. It was only after that did the Northwest farm a total of five ( how many jobs is that?) "C" check lines? Do you happen to know the number of jobs that this percentage cost working men and women?
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On 7/4/2003 1:15:42 PM jake wrote:
Why then did outsourcing increase dramatically after the insertion of the 38% cap. It was only after that did the Northwest farm a total of five ( how many jobs is that?) "C" check lines? Do you happen to know the number of jobs that this percentage cost working men and women?
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Maybe because AMFA set a floor of 38%, and a penalty payment plan.
They also managed to get, inevitably, tangled up in the numbers game, of how is outsourcing measured.
That effectively eliminated the right to grieve outsourcing. I see their only option as going straight to court. Expensive time consuming and in today''s economic and political climate pretty hopeless.
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On 7/4/2003 10:56:29 AM James T. Kirk wrote:
When all of the 2003 numbers have been factored in NWA will be well over the 38% LABOR DOLLARS CAP as per their contract. NWA has sent a letter to amfa notifying that they plan to exceed the 38% cap and are not going to pay amfa any penalty money. Now what a surprise that is to everyone.
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Show us the letter!On 7/4/2003 10:56:29 AM James T. Kirk wrote:
When all of the 2003 numbers have been factored in NWA will be well over the 38% LABOR DOLLARS CAP as per their contract. NWA has sent a letter to amfa notifying that they plan to exceed the 38% cap and are not going to pay amfa any penalty money. Now what a surprise that is to everyone.
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On 7/4/2003 2:03:49 PM j7915 wrote
Maybe because AMFA set a floor of 38%, and a penalty payment plan.
They also managed to get, inevitably, tangled up in the numbers game, of how is outsourcing measured.
That effectively eliminated the right to grieve outsourcing. I see their only option as going straight to court. Expensive time consuming and in today's economic and political climate pretty hopeless.
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Tell us again, the percentage and the procedure used by the TWU to stop our work from being outsourced. How is it the numbers game goes? Was it 17.5% paycut, 5 Lost Holidays, 5 Lost Vacation Days, 50% Sick Leave, Loss of License and Skill pay for mechanics, Working an 8 Hour Holiday for 4 Hours pay? Or was there some other numbers game/formula we missed? On 7/4/2003 2:03:49 PM j7915 wrote
Maybe because AMFA set a floor of 38%, and a penalty payment plan.
They also managed to get, inevitably, tangled up in the numbers game, of how is outsourcing measured.
That effectively eliminated the right to grieve outsourcing. I see their only option as going straight to court. Expensive time consuming and in today's economic and political climate pretty hopeless.
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In simple terms I believe the numbers game the TWU played with our livelyhood was $620 Million. Expensive time consuming and in today's economic and political climate pretty hopeless.
That pay and benefit loss equaled nearly 38% for many. And you like to pound your chest in pride. What a "good union man" you are! Now return to the Supervisors office and report someone for selling AMFA t-shirts or talking about AMFA.
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On 7/4/2003 2:03:49 PM j7915 wrote:
Maybe because AMFA set a floor of 38%, and a penalty payment plan.
They also managed to get, inevitably, tangled up in the numbers game, of how is outsourcing measured.
That effectively eliminated the right to grieve outsourcing. I see their only option as going straight to court. Expensive time consuming and in today''s economic and political climate pretty hopeless.
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Yea it is a bad thing to set a limit. 38% at NWA and up to 49% at AA. Now jump in and state that the Airframe is worked only in house and by TWU represented mechanics. But admit that a large portion of Airframe and Engine componets and peice parts are farmed out.On 7/4/2003 2:03:49 PM j7915 wrote:
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On 7/4/2003 1:15:42 PM jake wrote:
Why then did outsourcing increase dramatically after the insertion of the 38% cap. It was only after that did the Northwest farm a total of five ( how many jobs is that?) "C" check lines? Do you happen to know the number of jobs that this percentage cost working men and women?
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On 7/4/2003 1:15:42 PM jake wrote:
Why then did outsourcing increase dramatically after the insertion of the 38% cap. It was only after that did the Northwest farm a total of five ( how many jobs is that?) "C" check lines? Do you happen to know the number of jobs that this percentage cost working men and women?
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Maybe because AMFA set a floor of 38%, and a penalty payment plan.
They also managed to get, inevitably, tangled up in the numbers game, of how is outsourcing measured.
That effectively eliminated the right to grieve outsourcing. I see their only option as going straight to court. Expensive time consuming and in today''s economic and political climate pretty hopeless.
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The way TWU Local 514 treats the line stations, any work done by the line station should be considered outsourced. "B checks" and "MOD lines"
Shouldn''t outsourcing JUST be limited to "Pieces and Parts"? In a perfect world all work would be done in house, but if we have to be stuck with outsourcing why give them the whole enchilada? How about we defend the profession a little and try and keep SOME airframe work "in-house".
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On 7/4/2003 5:41:08 PM AAmech wrote:
Shouldn''t outsourcing JUST be limited to "Pieces and Parts"? In a perfect world all work would be done in house, but if we have to be stuck with outsourcing why give them the whole enchilada? How about we defend the profession a little and try and keep SOME airframe work "in-house".
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And who is going to determine which mechanics work the airframe and which mechanics are going to be assigned to the pieces and parts? Why not have a contractual limit, where at least it can be contested. When you work under a scope that virtually has no limit on outsourcing without a penalty then you really do not have a scope. And while we are at it, why don''t we try to improve our wages and benefits instead of reducing them under concessionary contracts?On 7/4/2003 5:41:08 PM AAmech wrote:
Shouldn''t outsourcing JUST be limited to "Pieces and Parts"? In a perfect world all work would be done in house, but if we have to be stuck with outsourcing why give them the whole enchilada? How about we defend the profession a little and try and keep SOME airframe work "in-house".
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On 7/4/2003 5:41:08 PM AAmech wrote:
Shouldn't outsourcing JUST be limited to "Pieces and Parts"? In a perfect world all work would be done in house, but if we have to be stuck with outsourcing why give them the whole enchilada? How about we defend the profession a little and try and keep SOME airframe work "in-house".
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Yeah, let's just give them the enchilada stuffed with 17.5% of our pay, 5 vacation days, 5 paid holidays, 50% of our sick time, 88% reduction in Injury on Duty pay, all license and skill pay for shop mechanics, 3500 headcount elimination of Job Security Protection, and then post on the internet about how this enchilda is superior to that enchilda at the "other airline". On 7/4/2003 5:41:08 PM AAmech wrote:
Shouldn't outsourcing JUST be limited to "Pieces and Parts"? In a perfect world all work would be done in house, but if we have to be stuck with outsourcing why give them the whole enchilada? How about we defend the profession a little and try and keep SOME airframe work "in-house".
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You call that defending the profession? I have the cure for cancer if you would like to buy it!
will fix for food
Veteran
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On 7/4/2003 12
37 PM Buck wrote:
"And why is their work at Nordam?"
I don/t know, they don/t consult me.
" Who represents them?"
My guess is no one. (Why doesn/t anyone ever try to organize these places? Instead of blowing all your energy trying to limit the use of low cost alternatives, organize them so that they don/t have such a huge cost advantage.)
"If AMR can have work done cheaper, why does this not happen?"
Again, they don/t consult me. All I know is that the bill I saw for the repair of a single composite piece was as much as a mechanic makes in a day. If he repairs just two a day that is a fair amount of money saved.
Does Eagle have to threaten Bankruptcy before AMR investigates?
I doubt that will happen any time soon. Eagle keeps making money despite AMR''s best efforts. Eagle and American set up the new fee per departure arrangement so that all revenues go to A/A and A/A just reimburses Eagle for the costs of operating the airline. They have it set up so that Eagle makes zero profit. Bowler admitted this. However, some accountant misplaced a decimal point and we still made money last quarter. I am sure that accountant is fired.
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On 7/4/2003 12
37 PM Buck wrote: "And why is their work at Nordam?"
I don/t know, they don/t consult me.
" Who represents them?"
My guess is no one. (Why doesn/t anyone ever try to organize these places? Instead of blowing all your energy trying to limit the use of low cost alternatives, organize them so that they don/t have such a huge cost advantage.)
"If AMR can have work done cheaper, why does this not happen?"
Again, they don/t consult me. All I know is that the bill I saw for the repair of a single composite piece was as much as a mechanic makes in a day. If he repairs just two a day that is a fair amount of money saved.
Does Eagle have to threaten Bankruptcy before AMR investigates?
I doubt that will happen any time soon. Eagle keeps making money despite AMR''s best efforts. Eagle and American set up the new fee per departure arrangement so that all revenues go to A/A and A/A just reimburses Eagle for the costs of operating the airline. They have it set up so that Eagle makes zero profit. Bowler admitted this. However, some accountant misplaced a decimal point and we still made money last quarter. I am sure that accountant is fired.
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