Twu Ad - Aa Gets Hit Again

[AMFAMAN]

Bob, get over the elected twice thingy..issue was your integrity, not your ability to get elected. It's your mind you live in, if you see that shredding an oath is allowable then so be it...but Bob..I'm on the outside of that mind looking in and I don't see much integrity..fact is....

Steve,

One question; Looking at the card counts of certain cities, there appears to be a few that are at 100% or one or two cards shy of it on the title 1 side(i.e.)SAN/BDL/SEA. How do you get your so-called men of integrity when all have signed cards? Obviously the membership at those stations are fine with whoever takes the section chairman job and the shop stewards job. Are you saying that these station don't deserve any representation because they have no "men of integrity"? I am sure you are aware that the guy you met from DFW serves on some Local appointed by the President committees. Are the majority all wrong Steve, because the majority have now signed cards?

 

[Dan Cunningham]

AMFAMAN,

You might need to stand down AMFAMAN, Steve is havin a hard time remedying the fact that most of the line stations have a plethora of AMFAMEN and, hopefully, AMFAWOMEN serving their representation needs. No, according to Steve and the twu International elitists only those that truly believe are worthy of the SELLOUTS peddled by the twu, and paid days off to fly and testify.

I especially like the fact that a certain New Yorker was with me at the alleged meeting that Steve was able to fly down to DFW and testify about. No one seems to need to file charges against that guy even though I hear he was, at the time, served on a twu Local 565 committee. This kinda shows a bit of discrimination on the part of the twu punks, drunks, and cowards. Steve knows where he is in relation to that group of believers.

Guess Steve also has a problem taking the ball and running with it. He is more of a shadow boxer, that way no one gets hurt when he has to show his stuff! Yes, AMFAMAN, our guy Steve is kinda shy when it comes to initiating the game, he just wants to continue as Waterboy!

Dan Cunningham

 

[Steve Connell]

Actually AMFABOY...Dan was the only person in the group to announce his position with the TWU or rest assured there would have been other charges brought...want to give us his name now Dan? That would be your style..since you already gave his local how about a name and we'll see what we can do for ya?

Punks, drunks , and cowards? How would you know Dan? After doing your little AMFA promo all ya did was sit your drunk butt in a chair and put your cheap sun glasses on...I know..you always admired the Fonz and continue to through emulation...nice touch.

Again...what was his name Dan?

 

[AMFAMAN]

Again...what was his name Dan?

What are you going to do, run to management with it? Sounds like you Steve

 

[Bob Owens]

Quote by BOB. . .

I made my intentions clear to John Sweeney, Sonny Hall, Art Luby, Jim Little, Mike Bakala and anyone else who crossed my path for the last three years.


You mean you have been paid by the TWU as one of their officers and promoting AMFA at the same time for 3 years???? Now that's ethical!!!

(I make that statement not knowing how long you were in office. Maybe you could enlighten me.)

Enlighten you? Not possible.

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks for replying 410OhOne,
I will answer all questions as honest as I can and with the best knowledge I have, no lies, and never hateful or threatening,
About the Federal Aid, Lobbying, and such, it is true, AMFA does not and will not recognize Political intervention, lobbying for aid to help members, promoting, endorsing, seeking political power that unions need for the membership. Everyday we hear about another union using its privelege within the political circles to aid another union member, keeping work in house instead of outsourcing to foreign contries, etc
Unions, AFL-CIO unions, established safety guidelines for all of while in the workforce, that not only benefited the union worker but also established a safe work place for non union members,
The list goes on and on about what Political connections mean to all union members, we have all benefited sometime

Thank you for signing the petition to oust the E BOARD, I also signed and beleive they should be held accountable for the childishness they represent to our local. I beleive in membership and participation. Thats what irked me about what the E BOARD did, did to our members, Our membership elected our local president, fairly and just, he received more votes than all others on the E BOARD, because the membership felt he was the right person to lead our local, and then, what? 3 months later, because they want to be able to dictate to him what his responsiblity is they vote to suspend him, without discussing with the local? Then, not only suspend him, they had a kangaroo court to dismiss him, lead by the person that has the most to gain, the VP, now president. ANd, Not once did the E BOARD post or notify the membership about any problems they had with the president, not until,..1 month later? they come out with a complete laundry list? HOW CHILDISH. Not only did they hide their feelings about how they felt about the president, but then, without notifying or asking the memberhsip they go and buy new laptop computers? Yeah our local has problems, but we can replace them with petitions and hopefully we will,

Your statement about skilled, Makes sense, nice way with words, A&P's are like an archictect. But to me, saying we are skilled, sounds like, and this is just my opinion, but sounds like the mechanics are saying we are better than the fleet service cleaner, better than the parts clerk who pulls our part, I disagree, I beleive we are all as valuable as the other.
Where I differ I guess, is your views as to a welder and and A&P mechanic, both are skilled, both are a craft, both are definitely professional, but when AMFA says they want to be a skilled craft union, how can they represent the plant maintenace worker, who does not work non airplanes, the welder, who builds stands and docks, the Machinist who makes parts and tools?If we are to beleive that we should have our own class, and skill, to me it sounds as if the other skills and professionals need their own union also? But we know that wont happen, so why split the "professionals" why not keep all "professionals"?
I hear all the talk about keep the lower class to themselves, and us to ourselves, Maybe Im wrong and If I am, I apologize, but has anyone compared title 1 contract to title 5 contract, I should say concessions? Why is that title 1 lost more than title 5? Not because of TWU, all were represented by the TWU, but because title 5 had their own negotiating committee? Please correct me if Im wrong




If a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone in an industrial union, than the new architect can only by 2/3 of a loaf because 1/3 of his check now has to pay off his new certification.

I agree, you should be compensated for your education. But what about those the have a 4 year college education and could only find a job paying minimum wage? The same loaf of bread costs us all the same

Thank you again

The point about the lack of political clout does have validity but then we have to ask did all the political clout that we are told that the TWU has protect us from the massive cuts we just took?

I suspect that AMFAs position on Political Lobbying is subject to change. I saw two AMFA reps at a political Conference in Washington DC a couple of years back.

The AFL-CIO does have a record of accomplishments as you have said, however over the last twenty years they have a lot more losses than wins and unfortunately the majority of the leaders are old men who will not and have no reason to change their failed ways. There is hope however, the SEIU has a militant leader who is poised to shake up the organization (the SEIU is the largest union in the country). They sent me a copy of an essay entitled "United We Win". It makes excellent reading for any unionist.

Sorry to hear about your President, I met him when I went to MCI with our "Vote No" letter. He was a nice guy, however he was terrified of his board.

Good luck with your petition, however look at the Constitution, you really dont have the right to take them out because you dont like what they did, only the International can do that. Look up the lawsuit that Local 234 has against the International. There the E-Board cited the President with violating the bylaws and removed her, however she was a Sonny Hall supporter and he put her back in office. Who knows, maybe he will do the same for Butch, however the price is likely to be high.

You dont have to tell me about Kangaroo Courts, I've been there.

Having met your E-Board I agree with your description-Childish. Here we came 1500 miles to talk, with your Presidents permision, and all these guys could do is stomp back and forth and say "you guys better leave". I told them they were free to come to NY, but they were in an absolute panic. Panic is not a good leadership trait.

I think that all people of decency would agree that all workers are valuable and should receive a fair wage. This does not however translate to mean the same wage regardless of the nature or type of labor provided. Its not a question of being "better" than someone else however there are differences in the value of the services or type of labor provided even if all people are of the same value. This difference in the value of the type of labor provided is reflected in people of equal value as human beings getting paid different rates per hour for the type of labor provided. We are not born into a rigid caste system, if the fleet service cleaner wants the wage of a mechanic then he has the option to make the investment and obtain the neccesary tickets. If the wage were the same either way what would be the incetive for a mechanic to invest his money and time to get a liscence?

You are wrong about why Title I lost more than Title 5. The reason why we lost more is because the International decided that Title I had to bear a disproportionate share of the $610 million in that our share was spread out between fewer workers than the other group.

Shortly after I hired on our Treasurer (Local 501) said to mechanics "I have a four year diploma in teaching, your liscence only takes two years (plus five years experience to get a job at AA at the time) so I should make more money than you (throwing bags)." My reply was "Did AA require you to have a four year degree to throw bags? They required the lisences and five years experience for me to get hired as a mechanic." On its face this statement may have sounded elitist but if you look at it I had to invest seven years to give the company what it wanted, an experienced lisenced worker, how did his four years of college learning to be a teacher improve his value as a baggage handler? If you went to get your car fixed would you be willing to pay the mechanic more if he had a doctorate in anthropology? Would his doctorate increase the value of the service provided if he was fixing your car? Sure it took a big investment on his part to get a doctorate but is that what you need from him? Should you pay for something you dont need?

Yes the same loaf does cost us all the same, this is true you and I, but also Bill Gates, Sonny Hall and Jim Little but we dont see those people willing to make the same as us.

 

[TonyB]

:down: There once was a fella named Steve Connell,
whom to management he loved to grovel.
Do not dare turn your back,
for all know he's a RAT
and to management he'll run on the double. :down:

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

.

Bob, Thank you for your reply, I do remember your group coming here, how after your departure, Our E BOARD wrote the membership aletter telling us you were here to try to persuade us to vote no on the concessions, also all E BOARD members signed the letter urging all of us to vote yes.
Also, because of your group coming here, I dont know, if its true or not, but our E BOARD said Butch invited you, and that was used as part of the EBOARDS letter to the membership after they suspended BUTCH, because, as they said in the letter, Butch had knowingly invited an AMFA group from new york to come here to ask us to vote no. That was 1 of the charges brought up agianst Butch.
Butch before your group arrived had urged the membership to vote in favor of the concessions, to save our jobs.
Butch also was in talks with the city to establish a contract for AA to lease the base to save our jobs, thats why the E Board suspended him, because he didnt take them to the meeting.............childish? HELL YES, Guess they felt they were going to miss somehting and not get credit, that they seem to admire
Butch went to a retirement ceremony after calling to order an E BOARD meeting, this is one charge they made against him, that he went to retirement party rather than finish his business at the board meeting. CHILdish....................HELL YES
Another charge, Butch they claim had numerous cell phone personal calls, stating his bill was over the limit, but yet no other E BOARD member had their cell phone usage shown to compare................YEP CHILDISH
What angered me the most about this is, just 3 months before, the memberhsip voted unamioulsy for Butch, he received more votes than all E BOARD members together, THE MEMBERSHIP SPOKE, it took only 8 members of the E BOARD to over ride the memberships vote, to me, if they had a problem with Butch they should have told the memberhsip and let us decide his fate, but because as they say he violated the BYLAWS and constition, yet at his trial (kangaroo court) 1 E BOARD responded when asked by Butch, "Its Long Standing Policy of this local'
What the heck is he talking about? We have only been a local less than a year? and already we have a long standing policy?
YES.........we have alot of problems here, but no matter how bad, I will stay with a union that is AFL-CIO, because I beleive in history, and as they say in sports, you stay with what brought you.
I have been around unions along time, Im familiar with the past TEAMSTERS, of Truckdrivers from the 60's to the 80's, they were powerful, because of the membership, which is lacking in all unions today


Bob said.........The AFL-CIO does have a record of accomplishments as you have said, however over the last twenty years they have a lot more losses than wins and unfortunately the majority of the leaders are old men who will not and have no reason to change their failed ways. There is hope however, the SEIU has a militant leader who is poised to shake up the organization (the SEIU is the largest union in the country). They sent me a copy of an essay entitled "United We Win". It makes excellent reading for any unionist

over the last Tweenty years Bob, the AFL-CIO has lot power, all unions have. I know we will arguments about this, but to me, it started when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers. THat was the end of all membership staying as 1, since then , no membership has been strong. To me, it dont matter what Initials hang over our local, if membership dont beleive or trust, we will never be strong and in solidarity. We need leaders that all members look up to, I feel we lack that here, we do have alot of good and great people, great members, alot with great ideas, and desires, We lack the leader willing to go the extra mile for us.

Bob wrote............Sorry to hear about your President, I met him when I went to MCI with our "Vote No" letter. He was a nice guy, however he was terrified of his board

Bob, I dont beleive he was terrified of his board, its that he didnt fit in the "click". He supported a woman to head the labor board, the E BOARD disagreed and picked another, the woman Butch selected eventually won.
Butch had many great ideas and leadership ability, but because some of the E BOARD memebers didnt think of it first, they fought Butch and objected to him.
Butch had a great repor with all, including management. Members that didnt vote for Butch were eager to sigh the Petition, the membership couldnt beleive what the committee had done, Im not sure of the final count, but beleiveit to be over a thousand, more than enough to send a message
Never, in the weeks following his dismissal did the E BOard tell the membership what they had done, till probably well over a month, maybe more like month and a ahlf, they fianlly broke their silence and sent out letters, slamming Butch, with accusations not related to his dismissal
It was after his dismissal the E board, with out asking or telling membership at the monthly meetings, that they had bought new lap top computers
I will say, that after our membership heard about your group coming here and urging us to vote no and our committee was urging us to vote yes, most members were upset and did vote no
I agree that a person with higher degree of education should be compensated, A&P should receive more, than an AMT
I also beleive tha all workers deserve the right to a good payscale and benefits, If a fleet service worker is happy cleaning airplanes, than its not my place to be little them for staying,the same as a parts person, we must do what makes each happy, ourselves, and because they stay, does not mean they are less than us, but that does not mean they hsould make what a mechanic makes, but it does mean they deserve the right to represented the best of alls ability
I hope all members will take a more active role in their local, and help change by laws where the members havbe more power, not the E BOARD, after all they are supposed to work for us...............not against us

again,

Thank You Bob

 

[AMFAMAN]

I hope all members will take a more active role in their local, and help change by laws where the members havbe more power, not the E BOARD, after all they are supposed to work for us...............not against us

MCI AFL-CIO,

I had to comment about this because the AMFA Supporter that Steve is looking to go after at DFW with Bad Standing is doing just that, working to change by-laws by being on the committee. Do you find it an integrity issue with someone still trying to better his local on behalf of his membership and representing people in need, even though he still supports leaving this union?

Although I disagree with the direction we should be headed, I respect your opinion for at least they are coming from a unionist, unlike what I see out of Steve fronting off people to management.

 

[Steve Connell]

AMFABOY...I'm not looking to go after anyone, nor have I ran to mangement, your facts are as true as your loyalism..that's sad. I'm not going to continue repeating my stance on AMFA....however my battle to keep AMFA out of MCI will continue and continue well. So far at MCI..it was your AMFA supporter going to HR, or doesn't that count in your one sided world. By the way..from the content of your posts I see why you use an alias...embarrassing isn't it?

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

:

AMFAMAN, Thanks for the reply. First I want to make clear, we all have opinions, and should exercise our freedom to say what we feel. and beleive.
What I beleive in most among all UNION members, is, Im not slamming anyone, just stating my opinion, I disagree strongly with ratting on anyone, be it TWU against AMFA or AMFA against TWU, and to me what our E BOARD did was in fact a ratting of our president
I beleive in democracy, debates, message boards with debates, such as informational issues,
Im glad to see members wanting to help their locals, as we all should,Im divided, with myself, not slamming anyone again, just not sure how to feeel about officers having office within a local while organizing another union? I feel maybe the officers should stay neutral? I do beleive as an officer, working for his union, supporting his union his local,he should work for the membership, if that means changing bylaws, so be it,if the memberships speaks, the committee should listen, as a whole not to just a hand full, you know..........the ones that go to every meeting, they are the ones that the E Board listen to
There should not be "Clicks" inside committee. I dont beleive in judging another person as our E BOArd has done against our local elected president.
I have stated before that I beleive the AMFA supporters are very intelligent, if only we could all use what ability we use hear in denouncing the TWU/AMFA, and work together, we would be a 100% stronger than we are now, both sides have great views, and clearly a deal of energy
Until we can do that, we will never be the unions are fathers and grandfathers made for us

As I said before, Butch was elected by the entire membership and ousted by 8 E Board members, to me that is unfair, and that is why all members have a trust issue.
The same ,this is myopinion only, Dan was elected by his members, he should be allowed to stay, same for Bob Owens,When membership speaks we should listen, not fight us

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, Thank you for your reply, I do remember your group coming here, how after your departure, Our E BOARD wrote the membership aletter telling us you were here to try to persuade us to vote no on the concessions, also all E BOARD members signed the letter urging all of us to vote yes.
Also, because of your group coming here, I dont know, if its true or not, but our E BOARD said Butch invited you, and that was used as part of the EBOARDS letter to the membership after they suspended BUTCH, because, as they said in the letter, Butch had knowingly invited an AMFA group from new york to come here to ask us to vote no. That was 1 of the charges brought up agianst Butch.
Butch before your group arrived had urged the membership to vote in favor of the concessions, to save our jobs.
Butch also was in talks with the city to establish a contract for AA to lease the base to save our jobs, thats why the E Board suspended him, because he didnt take them to the meeting.............childish? HELL YES, Guess they felt they were going to miss somehting and not get credit, that they seem to admire
Butch went to a retirement ceremony after calling to order an E BOARD meeting, this is one charge they made against him, that he went to retirement party rather than finish his business at the board meeting. CHILdish....................HELL YES
Another charge, Butch they claim had numerous cell phone personal calls, stating his bill was over the limit, but yet no other E BOARD member had their cell phone usage shown to compare................YEP CHILDISH
What angered me the most about this is, just 3 months before, the memberhsip voted unamioulsy for Butch, he received more votes than all E BOARD members together, THE MEMBERSHIP SPOKE, it took only 8 members of the E BOARD to over ride the memberships vote, to me, if they had a problem with Butch they should have told the memberhsip and let us decide his fate, but because as they say he violated the BYLAWS and constition, yet at his trial (kangaroo court) 1 E BOARD responded when asked by Butch, "Its Long Standing Policy of this local'
What the heck is he talking about? We have only been a local less than a year? and already we have a long standing policy?
YES.........we have alot of problems here, but no matter how bad, I will stay with a union that is AFL-CIO, because I beleive in history, and as they say in sports, you stay with what brought you.
I have been around unions along time, Im familiar with the past TEAMSTERS, of Truckdrivers from the 60's to the 80's, they were powerful, because of the membership, which is lacking in all unions today


Bob said.........The AFL-CIO does have a record of accomplishments as you have said, however over the last twenty years they have a lot more losses than wins and unfortunately the majority of the leaders are old men who will not and have no reason to change their failed ways. There is hope however, the SEIU has a militant leader who is poised to shake up the organization (the SEIU is the largest union in the country). They sent me a copy of an essay entitled "United We Win". It makes excellent reading for any unionist

over the last Tweenty years Bob, the AFL-CIO has lot power, all unions have. I know we will arguments about this, but to me, it started when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers. THat was the end of all membership staying as 1, since then , no membership has been strong. To me, it dont matter what Initials hang over our local, if membership dont beleive or trust, we will never be strong and in solidarity. We need leaders that all members look up to, I feel we lack that here, we do have alot of good and great people, great members, alot with great ideas, and desires, We lack the leader willing to go the extra mile for us.

Bob wrote............Sorry to hear about your President, I met him when I went to MCI with our "Vote No" letter. He was a nice guy, however he was terrified of his board

Bob, I dont beleive he was terrified of his board, its that he didnt fit in the "click". He supported a woman to head the labor board, the E BOARD disagreed and picked another, the woman Butch selected eventually won.
Butch had many great ideas and leadership ability, but because some of the E BOARD memebers didnt think of it first, they fought Butch and objected to him.
Butch had a great repor with all, including management. Members that didnt vote for Butch were eager to sigh the Petition, the membership couldnt beleive what the committee had done, Im not sure of the final count, but beleiveit to be over a thousand, more than enough to send a message
Never, in the weeks following his dismissal did the E BOard tell the membership what they had done, till probably well over a month, maybe more like month and a ahlf, they fianlly broke their silence and sent out letters, slamming Butch, with accusations not related to his dismissal
It was after his dismissal the E board, with out asking or telling membership at the monthly meetings, that they had bought new lap top computers
I will say, that after our membership heard about your group coming here and urging us to vote no and our committee was urging us to vote yes, most members were upset and did vote no
I agree that a person with higher degree of education should be compensated, A&P should receive more, than an AMT
I also beleive tha all workers deserve the right to a good payscale and benefits, If a fleet service worker is happy cleaning airplanes, than its not my place to be little them for staying,the same as a parts person, we must do what makes each happy, ourselves, and because they stay, does not mean they are less than us, but that does not mean they hsould make what a mechanic makes, but it does mean they deserve the right to represented the best of alls ability
I hope all members will take a more active role in their local, and help change by laws where the members havbe more power, not the E BOARD, after all they are supposed to work for us...............not against us

again,

Thank You Bob

Let me add a few more details.

Our group consisted of myself and one member who volunteered to go with me. Invitation is really too strong of a word to describe under what terms we went to MCI, if I said invited I will correct myself. Our President called and asked if we could come and he said OK. We invited ourselves with his permission and we were not there to promote AMFA. If he had said No we would not have come.

We were there trying to get you guys to vote no.

The claim that he invited an AMFA group was a lie. At the time there was no AMFA drive to speak of, it was a dead issue. I was a TWU Local Treasurer who had been pushing for various reforms within the TWU since getting into office. If I wanted to get rid of the TWU then why would I have bothered? If we had been succesful at getting this thing voted down then more than likely there would be no AMFA drive at AA.

It was all the events surrounding the passing of this contract that restarted the AMFA drive. If I see something wrong I will not stay silent, nor will I knowingly decieve the members who I represent. According to the TWU International this translates into not being loyal to them, and they will not tolerate that. Their Intolerance also fuels the AMFA drive.

If you want to get Butch back all you have to do is start a drive to put everyone on Hand Pay and stop paying COPE. This always gets the Internationals attention. In fact the separate Maint locals were the result of such a protest.

Here is my understanding of the events:
Down in MIA the E-bd removed the rep from maintenance, supposedly because he did not wear a tie to the e-bd meeting, the mechanics were enraged and said that they would not pay dues to a Local that did not allow them to have their own rep. At the time there was also an AMFA drive.

The International went down to find out what was going on, the mechanics refused to go back on check-off and said they would not pay. Basically it was a "strike" against the union. In order to smooth things over they formed a separate local, local 561, and offered most of the other mechanics the same.

When Reagan fired PATCO it was labors reaction that sealed our fate. Postal workers had staged a similar illegal strike 10 years earlier but the results were different. If this had happened in Europe the result would have been a complete shutdown, but our leaders have become more like the Bosses than the workers. I agree that PATCO was a major turning point for the labor movement, I also feel that our leaders are incapable or simply have no real desire, other than speachmaking, to change this direction. For twenty years they have been saying "we will get em next time" or "live to fight another day".

I must say that the vote count did not reflect that most members voted NO.

Good luck. If you truly want Butch back you have to make the International take notice of the memberships wishes, cut off the COPE funds and go to hand pay, remind the International that just because that check says "American Airlines" that its the members that are paying that money, not the company.You have to be willing to stand up to the heat. I can tell you from experience that its not that bad, in fact its exciting!

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

[!

Thank You BOb, I apologize, I didnt mean it to sound as if our president invited your group here knowing or thinking you were organizing for AMFA,Our President as he should have, accepted an invitation, for another locals members to come here to talk.
Where the AMFA organizing comes into playis, after our president was released, more than a month later, our E Board finally made a statement to our members regarding the removal of Butch, One of the charges in that statement accused Butch of Knowingly asking an AMFA group to come here.
The AMFA drive had started earlier this year, probably march, but no connections with your group coming here
Im not a leader, as per hand pay and cope. the members here that carried on with the petition were successful, but to gain the memberships trust to hand pay............I think is going overboard.
It might be true the petition will do no good, but I beleive it will get somesone attention, You see, Our E Board beleives the members support them beleive them, they actually beleive more members accept what they did to BUtch than are against them
Under the IAM our committe never ousted an officer, I think its time we change the bylaws, if thats where they get the power to over ride the memberhsip, and give the power back to the elected presidnet, not the E BOaord

 

[Steve Connell]

...ref: AMFAMAN, Thanks for the reply. First I want to make clear, we all have opinions, and should exercise our freedom to say what we feel. and beleive.
What I beleive in most among all UNION members, is, Im not slamming anyone, just stating my opinion, I disagree strongly with ratting on anyone, be it TWU against AMFA or AMFA against TWU, and to me what our E BOARD did was in fact a ratting of our president
.

...what our E-Board did was uphold our constitution. I realize you stated it's your opinion, but let's place fact where fact belongs. If the E-Board acted in violation then Butch would be Pres...he's not...end of story. No sense in dragging Butch's name through the mud, he's a well liked person, but we are all human.

 

[Thomas Paine]

What exactly were the charges against Butch?

Were the charges so severe that it warranted removing him from office?

Shouldnt the E-board have let the members decide?

When is your next regular elections?

Do you have acces to the minutes of his trial?

The charges have to be specific.

How come Steve does not want to talk about this?

If they are referring to us as the AMFA Group they are lying. I said nothing about AMFA. We were there trying to tell them why we were voting NO and why they should also.

You could start a petition to recall your E-bd. Then watch how quickly they start to say that it was not them who wanted it but so and so. Sounds to me like someone just wanted Butch's spot.