Twu Ad - Aa Gets Hit Again

[Bob Owens]

You need 3 reasons to continue your support of the TWU..name me one way you have supported them locally lately. How have you supported your local 530 leadership? I'd be more than happy to meet you anywhere...shall I look for an ID badge that reads 410ohone? Or shall I just see ya at the inspection desk? If you are so shallow to give allegiance for 3 reasons of anything you might need to rethink... you honestly think that any item will be different with AMFA? Let's see..I have heard accountability from AMFA for months now...explain that please...I get to re-elect officials everytime I do not like their platform? I think we'd run out of candidates in a week.

Steve;
Why wont you reply to a simple request? The question was quite clear. 3 reasons why they should support the TWU. Do you mean that you support this organization but can not tell us why? Who is the shallow one here?

He asked a question, a simple one at that, and you reply with questions, sarcasm and accustation. Is this what you call representation? Was this meant to be a rebuttal in a debate or just a show of your blind obedience and loyalty to the company union?

Your post also reveals a contempt for Democracy. "I get to re-elect officials everytime I do not like their platform?" What kind of a statement is that? Do you think that there is something wrong with making people accountable to the people they represent? Do you have that little faith in working people that you feel that they should not be allowed to choose who leads them? Subordinatoin is reserved to the company, because they pay us, we pay the union, so they should be subordinate to the members. Many union bosses have forgotten this concept, along with more than a few weak minded members such as yourself.

 

[Steve Connell]

Lies Bob? What have I stated that is a lie? Are you stating that you DID NOT promote AMFA while being an elected official, under oath, to the TWU? And I lied here? I was never given a choice, a choice in what Bob ? To keep your integrity intact? You shredded it man...you may call me a rat in here or whatever, but I play no games in where I stand or what I back, if that sounds like management then it is because you envy their style Bob. BTW Bob..we won't be re-electing you anytime soon huh? Because of your honesty and concern , right Bob. I'd want to elect a person who I know has no integrity in his word or oath.

As far as responding to 410Oh1 's questions..that is repetitve. He needs to bookmark some posts for reference. I'm not here to go over every issue at his command, you know where I stand with my local...that is all that's important. BTW...must have missed your smiling face at work.
I believe I will sign my card tonight. Steve, do you want to be there when I do it? You and I can sign together.

Bay 8 Midnights

I was there with pen in hand, fact is I attended your meeting last night at begin of your shift, where were ya? I know...you wrote all this and then forgot...yeah right.

AMFABOY..if you're at 60% at MCI then you're doing your own math again, send the numbers to Bob, let him use his math to verify.

Buck, because I do not believe in threats you spin it to mean I thrive on confrontation? Buck, I am anything but confrontational, I walk away from all fights, I am a follower of anyone, I do not possess the potential to be a threat Buck. I am quite well read in Art. 32 and I see it to be a fine rule to live by Buck. So I am not really getting your intent here. I mean NO HARM to anyone, I could not face the mirror knowing I upset anyone in any manner Buck....Rats are like that Buck...don't ya know.

 

[Bob Owens]

Lies Bob? What have I stated that is a lie? Are you stating that you DID NOT promote AMFA while being an elected official, under oath, to the TWU? And I lied here? I was never given a choice, a choice in what Bob ? To keep your integrity intact? You shredded it man...you may call me a rat in here or whatever, but I play no games in where I stand or what I back, if that sounds like management then it is because you envy their style Bob. BTW Bob..we won't be re-electing you anytime soon huh? Because of your honesty and concern , right Bob. I'd want to elect a person who I know has no integrity in his word or oath.

Steve;
Where is your proof? The International could not come up with any so their Kangaroo Court changed the charges during the hearing. I make no beans about the fact that I want change. I made my intentions clear to John Sweeney, Sonny Hall, Art Luby, Jim Little, Mike Bakala and anyone else who crossed my path for the last three years. Bobby Gless even wanted to use my plans for change for his reelection campain, which he later dropped out of after he learned that I would not support him. However it is the TWU International's choice to only leave the members with one option for change.

I did not tell AA/TWU members to go with AMFA prior to my suspension.

As I testified I did keep my oath, however the oath swears me to allegience to the International and the Local Union (which I interpret as the members). The International created a situation that would put me in conflict with either the members I represent or the International, thus I turned to the Constitution.

Art II reinforced my decision to go with the people who elected me vs those who required me to take an oath who are not accountable to those I represent.

I did not call you a rat, must be your conscience.

You do nothing but play games. You demand answers but give none.

You did not elect me before, but I may get elected again before next year is out! I bet I'll get more votes than you!

 

[AMFAMAN]

AMFABOY..if you're at 60% at MCI then you're doing your own math again, send the numbers to Bob, let him use his math to verify.

I guess you're lacking in reading ability also, I said we "will" (Not Today Steve but Soon) be at 60% at MCI thanks to comments from you. Keep talking we will be there faster.

 

[Steve Connell]

Bob..if you get 1 vote it will be more than me..I'm not running or did I misunderstand you again. So what you're saying is then is that you supported the TWU in every way..yeah right...every way YOU deemed necessary. If you feel better about breaking your oath you took by stating.."I did it for my members" ..then you are as phony as your word. You had every opportunity to step down from your TWU position , or did the TWU beg you stay on with your infinate wisdom? You interpret..yeah right...well Bob..I interpret you're a man wanting dual unionship...wanting to be the "cool man on campus", afraid to go the unpopular route when asked...that I interpret Bob.

AMFABOY...I see you're still with the other AMFA supporters...

 

[twuer]

Quote from Buck. . .

Steve you should really get off of the OATH issue. If that were to be taken serious, all of us who served in the military would still be there and there would be no such thing as divorce.



Give me a break!! Brilliant comment Buck!! Got any more? NOT!!

:wacko: :wacko:

 

[twuer]

Response by Buck. . .

The more you tough talk the less respect I have for you. But that does not matter to you. The more you try to hold on to archaic industrial union principles the less respect you will receive.


Then I guess you have very little or no respect for the majority of the AMFA boys on these posts, because that's all they do is "talk tough", and out the side of their necks I might add!!

You AMFA boys talk and talk about standing up for what you believe in. And when a TWU supporter does it he is a RAT. I guess that means you AMFA boys are hypocrits. We all knew that anyway!

 

[twuer]

Quote from Rusty. . .

If you will Rat out your fellow worker, be it AMFA TWU IAM APA ALPA the letters do not matter. Your unionism has defiantly come into question!!! No, now it is out of the question!!! This is cowardly act and in most people’s books, is a question of ethics. Just how low will you go Steve???


Hey Rusty. . .ask Bob Owens and Dan Cunnigham (just to name a couple) about ethics. Both AMFA supporters.

 

[twuer]

Raptors quote. . .

Watch you back RAT BOY you know what they say what comes around goes around, I am glad I am not at your station for two reasons one you are there and two it won't be there long.


Sounds like a threat Raptor. That's par for the course though. That's all you AMFA boys have are threats and scare tactics. How do you think you have cards signed??

 

[twuer]

Again, just three good reasons to continue with the TWU. That is all I ask. Here are three reasons not to. To help you get started.

1. Industrial Unions should not and can not fairly represent a skilled craft.

2. Concessions in 2003 (Don't give me that BK BS)

3. Members Rights to be heard not dictated to.

Again, just three good reasons to continue with the TWU. That is all I ask. Here are three reasons not to. To help you get started.

1. Industrial Unions should not and can not fairly represent a skilled craft.

2. Concessions in 2003 (Don't give me that BK BS)

3. Members Rights to be heard not dictated to


410ohone

Im not Steve, but I will try to respond to your 3 questions, in my opinion, I know now Im opened to hear and receive hateful remarks and name calling, but I let you and others report without namecalling.

Industrial Unions should not and can not fairly represnet a skilled craft? My question to you, who are the skilled craft? only airline mechanics? do you consider the machinists? welders? plant maintenace workers? plumbers? I know your answer, but dont you consider any worker skilled? Fleet service and stores are very skilled and crafted. and by the way, Im an AMT, always have been, but howmany of the "skilled craft" got their start in the lower classification and moved up?

Concessions in 2003..........I wont give you any BS.........you as I and everyone received a ballot and voted to give or not to give concessions, I didnt vote to give up anything, but yet it passed. I would rather have our international come to us and tell us that the company wants to negotiate, rather than go behind our back and give away without our consent. The concessions passed, no one is happy about it

MEMBERS RIGHTS TO BE HEARD AND NOT DICTATED TO............... AMFA has the process of recalling any officer, by vote, we also have that right, did you sigh the petition recently to oust the entire E BOARD? all that is required is 50% plus 1? We have that right, if any of us in our local is upset about any member of the E BOARD to start a petition, I know what your going to say, Its just as easy to do this within our local as it is to say........Recall Delle? It can be done, but more realistically, we can oust an E BOARD member

I know by stating this, I can already hear the gasps.. but here goes, How many AMFA supporters have been laid off, not in the last year but in their lifetime, and had any AFL-CIO represented union, lobby local, state or Federal government for aid? Aid to pay training to learn a new profession? Aid to raise the lenght and value of the state un employment wages? How many times did the unions save, help the TWA WORKFORCE either state, city or federal? How many union members have been hospitalized and unable to stay current with bill paying? The unions come thru for all of us. How many lobbyest have helped all union members benefit, just once?
I for one, am not ready of willing to give away what my dad, my grandfathers fought so hard for all of us, so we could all have a safe place to work, with benefits and wages to raise a family and send our kids to college

I applaud you MCI AFL-CIO!! I'm afraid though that the AMFA boys don't want to hear the truth. They want to distort it to get cards signed. So look for some argument on your comments from some of the more seasoned posters. Glad to have you on board brother!!

 

[twuer]

Quote by BOB. . .

I made my intentions clear to John Sweeney, Sonny Hall, Art Luby, Jim Little, Mike Bakala and anyone else who crossed my path for the last three years.


You mean you have been paid by the TWU as one of their officers and promoting AMFA at the same time for 3 years???? Now that's ethical!!!

(I make that statement not knowing how long you were in office. Maybe you could enlighten me.)

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob..if you get 1 vote it will be more than me..I'm not running or did I misunderstand you again. So what you're saying is then is that you supported the TWU in every way..yeah right...every way YOU deemed necessary. If you feel better about breaking your oath you took by stating.."I did it for my members" ..then you are as phony as your word. You had every opportunity to step down from your TWU position , or did the TWU beg you stay on with your infinate wisdom? You interpret..yeah right...well Bob..I interpret you're a man wanting dual unionship...wanting to be the "cool man on campus", afraid to go the unpopular route when asked...that I interpret Bob.

AMFABOY...I see you're still with the other AMFA supporters...

A representative is supposed to be just that, a representative. My peers chose me to represent their interests. I was elected twice, the second time by a wider margin than the first. I've never shied away from making my position known, popular or not. If my members had requested that I resign then I would have, not one member except Bobby Gless, who is an appointed International Rep, a position he begged for when he realized that he was not going to get re-elected and have to go back to the floor asked me to step down.

I still say I did not break my oath, the International created a siuation where I had to choose between my members and the Constitution or the edicts of a appointed heirachy. I chose the moral way.

 

[Buck]

Steve:

it's Rule 32 of the AA regs not Art 32 of the contract?


TWUer:

Thanks! and I have more respect for for the AMFA supporters, I do not know of any that stated they wiuld go to management. You appear to need some anger management.

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

410ohone

Im not Steve, but I will try to respond to your 3 questions, in my opinion, I know now Im opened to hear and receive hateful remarks and name calling, but I let you and others report without namecalling.

Industrial Unions should not and can not fairly represnet a skilled craft? My question to you, who are the skilled craft? only airline mechanics? do you consider the machinists? welders? plant maintenace workers? plumbers? I know your answer, but dont you consider any worker skilled? Fleet service and stores are very skilled and crafted. and by the way, Im an AMT, always have been, but howmany of the "skilled craft" got their start in the lower classification and moved up?

Concessions in 2003..........I wont give you any BS.........you as I and everyone received a ballot and voted to give or not to give concessions, I didnt vote to give up anything, but yet it passed. I would rather have our international come to us and tell us that the company wants to negotiate, rather than go behind our back and give away without our consent. The concessions passed, no one is happy about it

MEMBERS RIGHTS TO BE HEARD AND NOT DICTATED TO............... AMFA has the process of recalling any officer, by vote, we also have that right, did you sigh the petition recently to oust the entire E BOARD?

I know by stating this, I can already hear the gasps.. but here goes, How many AMFA supporters have been laid off, not in the last year but in their lifetime, and had any AFL-CIO represented union, lobby local, state or Federal government for aid? Aid to pay training to learn a new profession? Aid to raise the lenght and value of the state un employment wages? How many times did the unions save, help the TWA WORKFORCE either state, city or federal? How many union members have been hospitalized and unable to stay current with bill paying? The unions come thru for all of us. How many lobbyest have helped all union members benefit, just once?

MCI AFL-CIO,

Thanks for the reply and walking out on a limb for me.

Skilled Craft? You make a very good point, however with responsibility comes compensation. So for sake of argument lets just exchange the word skilled for liable. I think we both agree that a house cannot stand safely without the skilled labor of a plumber, carpenter, bricklayer, etc. but none of the above groups can move into action without the licensed signature of an architect. The architect, certified, tested, and school trained puts his name on the line. Should that carpenter or any other skilled group wish to remain in the building industry, but make the "big bucks" he must attain further certification to become an architect or more liable, responsible person. Now that he has went to school, as you wish your kids to, he has most likely incurred a student loan balance to pay off. If a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone in an industrial union, than the new architect can only by 2/3 of a loaf because 1/3 of his check now has to pay off his new certification. A certification that in todays industrial unions is used as leverage to bring up the wages of the other work groups. You say that many have started at lower classifications and moved up. I believe and hope they did this to provide for their families as you suggest.

Concessions 2003,

Well I will get a little ignorant here if I may. We had no chance in that Iraqi vote. I for one never recieved a ballot. One was never mailed to my home, even if it was I was playing in the sand. I contacted the Co. and local by phone from halfway around the world to try to find out how to vote. No one could help or respond and get it done. Thus I didnt get to vote. I believe I am not the only one who can say that. There are conspiracy theories abound regarding the aftermath and handling of the fight against terrorism since the 9/11 attacks. My question to big business and the Mayor of Chicago who all declare these cutbacks, these sacrificies, the carnage, and destruction of personal lives and property (Meigs Field) all in the name of economic downturn and national security since the attacks is, How much more can you put on the back of 9/11? Wow that was a run on sentence, but the point is made.

Yes I did sign the Eboard petition. Which stall at MCI were they placed in by the International to use as toilet paper, cause you and I both know that is all their worth.

As far as the Federal Aid, lobbying, and such. I will admit to you that this is the kind of insightful information that I am looking for and must consider before signing my card. Does AMFA not have that kind of lobbying effort?

Thanks Again

Thanks for the reply and walking out on a limb for me.

Skilled Craft? You make a very good point, however with responsibility comes compensation. So for sake of argument lets just exchange the word skilled for liable. I think we both agree that a house cannot stand safely without the skilled labor of a plumber, carpenter, bricklayer, etc. but none of the above groups can move into action without the licensed signature of an architect. The architect, certified, tested, and school trained puts his name on the line. Should that carpenter or any other skilled group wish to remain in the building industry, but make the "big bucks" he must attain further certification to become an architect or more liable, responsible person. Now that he has went to school, as you wish your kids to, he has most likely incurred a student loan balance to pay off. If a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone in an industrial union, than the new architect can only by 2/3 of a loaf because 1/3 of his check now has to pay off his new certification. A certification that in todays industrial unions is used as leverage to bring up the wages of the other work groups. You say that many have started at lower classifications and moved up. I believe and hope they did this to provide for their families as you suggest.

Concessions 2003,

Well I will get a little ignorant here if I may. We had no chance in that Iraqi vote. I for one never recieved a ballot. One was never mailed to my home, even if it was I was playing in the sand. I contacted the Co. and local by phone from halfway around the world to try to find out how to vote. No one could help or respond and get it done. Thus I didnt get to vote. I believe I am not the only one who can say that. There are conspiracy theories abound regarding the aftermath and handling of the fight against terrorism since the 9/11 attacks. My question to big business and the Mayor of Chicago who all declare these cutbacks, these sacrificies, the carnage, and destruction of personal lives and property (Meigs Field) all in the name of economic downturn and national security since the attacks is, How much more can you put on the back of 9/11? Wow that was a run on sentence, but the point is made.

Yes I did sign the Eboard petition. Which stall at MCI were they placed in by the International to use as toilet paper, cause you and I both know that is all their worth.

As far as the Federal Aid, lobbying, and such. I will admit to you that this is the kind of insightful information that I am looking for and must consider before signing my card. Does AMFA not have that kind of lobbying effort?

Thanks Again

Thanks for replying 410OhOne,
I will answer all questions as honest as I can and with the best knowledge I have, no lies, and never hateful or threatening,
About the Federal Aid, Lobbying, and such, it is true, AMFA does not and will not recognize Political intervention, lobbying for aid to help members, promoting, endorsing, seeking political power that unions need for the membership. Everyday we hear about another union using its privelege within the political circles to aid another union member, keeping work in house instead of outsourcing to foreign contries, etc
Unions, AFL-CIO unions, established safety guidelines for all of while in the workforce, that not only benefited the union worker but also established a safe work place for non union members,
The list goes on and on about what Political connections mean to all union members, we have all benefited sometime

Thank you for signing the petition to oust the E BOARD, I also signed and beleive they should be held accountable for the childishness they represent to our local. I beleive in membership and participation. Thats what irked me about what the E BOARD did, did to our members, Our membership elected our local president, fairly and just, he received more votes than all others on the E BOARD, because the membership felt he was the right person to lead our local, and then, what? 3 months later, because they want to be able to dictate to him what his responsiblity is they vote to suspend him, without discussing with the local? Then, not only suspend him, they had a kangaroo court to dismiss him, lead by the person that has the most to gain, the VP, now president. ANd, Not once did the E BOARD post or notify the membership about any problems they had with the president, not until,..1 month later? they come out with a complete laundry list? HOW CHILDISH. Not only did they hide their feelings about how they felt about the president, but then, without notifying or asking the memberhsip they go and buy new laptop computers? Yeah our local has problems, but we can replace them with petitions and hopefully we will,

Your statement about skilled, Makes sense, nice way with words, A&P's are like an archictect. But to me, saying we are skilled, sounds like, and this is just my opinion, but sounds like the mechanics are saying we are better than the fleet service cleaner, better than the parts clerk who pulls our part, I disagree, I beleive we are all as valuable as the other.
Where I differ I guess, is your views as to a welder and and A&P mechanic, both are skilled, both are a craft, both are definitely professional, but when AMFA says they want to be a skilled craft union, how can they represent the plant maintenace worker, who does not work non airplanes, the welder, who builds stands and docks, the Machinist who makes parts and tools?If we are to beleive that we should have our own class, and skill, to me it sounds as if the other skills and professionals need their own union also? But we know that wont happen, so why split the "professionals" why not keep all "professionals"?
I hear all the talk about keep the lower class to themselves, and us to ourselves, Maybe Im wrong and If I am, I apologize, but has anyone compared title 1 contract to title 5 contract, I should say concessions? Why is that title 1 lost more than title 5? Not because of TWU, all were represented by the TWU, but because title 5 had their own negotiating committee? Please correct me if Im wrong




If a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone in an industrial union, than the new architect can only by 2/3 of a loaf because 1/3 of his check now has to pay off his new certification.

I agree, you should be compensated for your education. But what about those the have a 4 year college education and could only find a job paying minimum wage? The same loaf of bread costs us all the same

Thank you again

 

[Steve Connell]

Bob, get over the elected twice thingy..issue was your integrity, not your ability to get elected. It's your mind you live in, if you see that shredding an oath is allowable then so be it...but Bob..I'm on the outside of that mind looking in and I don't see much integrity..fact is....