Tulsa's AMT's can make things better

[Anomaly]

I expected some of the amfa promises to be kept. We were not able to bring the airline to their knees as amfa said. We were not able to stand up to the courts by being in a single craft union as amfa said. We were not able to deliver complete public support as aviation professionals as amfa said. We were not able to stay ahead of the weaker industrial unions as amfa said.

Nothing amfa said during the campaign helped us in the least. Their constitution and operating methods only offered more chances for members to turn on members. We forgot who we were fighting and began fighting ourselves.

I expected what you expected. Real power in a mechanics only union. What I experienced was Something Completely Different.

Stand Up For amfa ??????

I did, and this is how I felt.....You decide

Again for twu informer

 

[proAMT]

Sure Anomaly I'll explain,

I took a long time for AMFA to succeed at UAL and once there it didn't take that long for the Pied Piper Union to show up and tell the AMT's everything they wanted to hear. The Teamsters had a lot of money to spend. Displacing the IAM at NWA was no cake walk either. At AA it has literally taken decades to try and unseat a union as terrible as the TWU. There was a '89 drive, '98 drive, 2003 drive and now a 2012 drive. Problem is we've lost most of what's worth fighting for.

At SWA and Horizon the IBT and the TWU were not fully entrenched and the workforce at both airlines were very small and not as spread out compared to the legacies. I don't think the rampers were even IBT at SWA.

That's my take anyway.

 

[Realityck]

At SWA and Horizon the IBT and the TWU were not fully entrenched and the workforce at both airlines were very small and not as spread out compared to the legacies.


36 NMB No. 38 CASE NO. R-7196 CERTIFICATION April 21, 2009

REPRESENTATION OF EMPLOYEES
of HORIZON AIR INDUSTRIES, INC. Mechanics & Related Employees

At the time this application was received, these employees were represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA).



Election Results foe Mechanic & Related

Eligible Employees 484

AMFA 187

IBT 245


Did AMFA win and then get dumped?

 

[Anomaly]

Sure Anomaly I'll explain,

I took a long time for AMFA to succeed at UAL and once there it didn't take that long for the Pied Piper Union to show up and tell the AMT's everything they wanted to hear. The Teamsters had a lot of money to spend. Displacing the IAM at NWA was no cake walk either. At AA it has literally taken decades to try and unseat a union as terrible as the TWU. There was a '89 drive, '98 drive, 2003 drive and now a 2012 drive. Problem is we've lost most of what's worth fighting for.

At SWA and Horizon the IBT and the TWU were not fully entrenched and the workforce at both airlines were very small and not as spread out compared to the legacies. I don't think the rampers were even IBT at SWA.

That's my take anyway.

Seriously?? That argument of suggesting A&P mechanics are a bunch of mindless sheep is really getting annoying. The YOU LIED answer is all that amfa supporters can throw back when they are stuck against truth and fact.

Your statement that it took a long time for amfa to finally get on property at UAL is true and correct. But the piped piper conspiracy is just another testament in the attempt to deflect what is factual. By the time the IBT was ASKED to step in by a group of UAL mechanics, many of us had already made up our minds that amfa was a terrible mistake. We weren't listening to what the Teamster organizers had to say, as much as we were saying just get us out of this mess.

UAL, Horizon, or AA mechanics are not idiots. They can see through the crap spread by unions or associations. A lie did not force us to where we are today. A Lie is not keeping us where we are today. Give your fellow workers and industry mechanics a little more credit.

 

[Buck]

Not sheep, maybe. However they should be able to trust those they hire forcibly or not.

 

[Anomaly]

Not sheep, maybe. However they should be able to trust those they hire forcibly or not.

Lost again Buck?

 

[Hopeful]

UAL, Horizon, or AA mechanics are not idiots. They can see through the crap spread by unions or associations. A lie did not force us to where we are today. A Lie is not keeping us where we are today. Give your fellow workers and industry mechanics a little more credit.

So if we are all NOT idiots, the why doesn't our opinion of the TWU count in this debate?

Instead of everyone expressing their DISLIKES about the unions they don't prefer....Why doesn't everyone express their LIKES on the unions they would rather have represent them?

 

[Anomaly]

So if we are all NOT idiots, the why doesn't our opinion of the TWU count in this debate?

Instead of everyone expressing their DISLIKES about the unions they don't prefer....Why doesn't everyone express their LIKES on the unions they would rather have represent them?

Hopeful, I have never called you a liar for expressing your opinion.

Teamsters ran a campaign on UAL promising they could make thing better than amfa. For many of us (the vast majority), this has come true. For others, there were different expectations, and the Teamsters fell short.

The point of my post is that mechanics CAN tell the difference between a fact and lie and choose accordingly. Because they final decision may be opposite to many on this board, does not make them any less capable of making a choice.

I have tried repeatedly to post my personal likes of the Teamsters, Repeatedly they are cast aside as lies. It is much easier to supply the negatives and back them up with verifiable fact, which I do, and let people look up the facts themselves. Despite the LIE crying, it is hard to argue with verifiable facts.

I am not posting to convince you or any other regular writer on this board that my opinion is the only way of seeing things. I just enjoy entering into a good debate. The YOU LIE mantra of amfa supporters sorta ends this idea.

 

[proAMT]

Anolomy,

Your obviously a fan of the Teamsters and I believe that AMFA would be a better choice for the M&R class and craft here at AA. I believe fellow AMT's representing us would have better insight about our daily tasks and responsibilities and would represent us better than someone who doesn't work with their hands and get greasy everyday. I believe that someone in the craft would naturally have a stake in overseeing and defending the craft.

There is one question that pesters me about the IBT-why just the mechanics class and craft and why not the others?
With morale the way it is today I believe the IBT would have no problem getting enough cards signed. I'm at SEA and I bet nearly everyone of our rampers would sign a Teamsters card. Don't you think they would be better off with Teamsters representation than the representation they now have?

Why is the IBT exclusively focused on M&R?

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful, I have never called you a liar for expressing your opinion.

Teamsters ran a campaign on UAL promising they could make thing better than amfa. For many of us (the vast majority), this has come true. For others, there were different expectations, and the Teamsters fell short.

The point of my post is that mechanics CAN tell the difference between a fact and lie and choose accordingly. Because they final decision may be opposite to many on this board, does not make them any less capable of making a choice.

I have tried repeatedly to post my personal likes of the Teamsters, Repeatedly they are cast aside as lies. It is much easier to supply the negatives and back them up with verifiable fact, which I do, and let people look up the facts themselves. Despite the LIE crying, it is hard to argue with verifiable facts.

I am not posting to convince you or any other regular writer on this board that my opinion is the only way of seeing things. I just enjoy entering into a good debate. The YOU LIE mantra of amfa supporters sorta ends this idea.

I am certainly not accusing you of calling me a liar. that wasn't the point of my post.
Having said that, what I would like to see is people ONLY giving the positives of the bargaining agent they prefer.

Instead of "this union did this, and this union did that," everyone should just give the reasons why they think their choice is best.

 

[TWU informer]

Hopeful, I have never called you a liar for expressing your opinion.

Teamsters ran a campaign on UAL promising they could make thing better than amfa. For many of us (the vast majority), this has come true. For others, there were different expectations, and the Teamsters fell short.

You mean like those that the Teamsters knocked door to door who were not employed but on the recall list and were promised the IBT lie of their jobs back, and a their defined pension back, as soon as the ibt "re-opens" the section 6 negotiations?

Yeah the Teamsters fell short alright, and never intended to make good on such promises.

 

[Anomaly]

Anolomy,

Your obviously a fan of the Teamsters and I believe that AMFA would be a better choice for the M&R class and craft here at AA. I believe fellow AMT's representing us would have better insight about our daily tasks and responsibilities and would represent us better than someone who doesn't work with their hands and get greasy everyday. I believe that someone in the craft would naturally have a stake in overseeing and defending the craft.

There is one question that pesters me about the IBT-why just the mechanics class and craft and why not the others?
With morale the way it is today I believe the IBT would have no problem getting enough cards signed. I'm at SEA and I bet nearly everyone of our rampers would sign a Teamsters card. Don't you think they would be better off with Teamsters representation than the representation they now have?

Why is the IBT exclusively focused on M&R?

I can only answer my experiences at UAL. We wanted to be separated from the ramp, and from what I have read, so do you. The merger with CO as the Teamsters represented the ramp on that property almost made it so that we were all one big union again. My personal thoughts aside (for me personally, I have no problem with this) the mechanics at UAL let out a collective sigh of relief when the IBT lost the ramp for both CO and UA to the IAM. We are separate, and the majority of the mechanics appreciate that.

I think (hope for the sake of my co-workers) it was s signal to the IBT leadership that we, the mechanics group on both properties, would rather just leave well enough alone and stick to mechanics. So far, that seems to be the course and our wishes are being heard by the leadership.

By the way, fellow AMT's represent us here too at UAL. We simply have the luxury of guidance from other areas of the airlines, and other industries. Sometimes a broader view helps put things in to perspective.

 

[Anomaly]

You mean like those that the Teamsters knocked door to door who were not employed but on the recall list and were promised the IBT lie of their jobs back, and a their defined pension back, as soon as the ibt "re-opens" the section 6 negotiations?

Yeah the Teamsters fell short alright, and never intended to make good on such promises.

So if I knocked on your door ant told you the moon was made of cheese, you would believe it??

Come on......... Your not the only one with a brain.

 

[Anomaly]

I am certainly not accusing you of calling me a liar. that wasn't the point of my post.
Having said that, what I would like to see is people ONLY giving the positives of the bargaining agent they prefer.

Instead of "this union did this, and this union did that," everyone should just give the reasons why they think their choice is best.

My apologies, I never meant to imply that you did. I was just illustrating the fact that every decent word about the Teamsters is subjected to replies that I am either a liar or an IBT employee.

I like your point. If you start a thread asking for the positives, I will contribute and hold my arguments to other areas.

 

[TWU informer]

So if I knocked on your door ant told you the moon was made of cheese, you would believe it??

Come on......... Your not the only one with a brain.

You keep claiming the "vast" majority are happy with the Teamsters and it is numerically impossible.
There are no AMT's that could come close to being the "majority" or the "vast majority" in the Teamsters structure.
you lie